MrZ and his Franken-Julia - Page 3 - ZX6R Forum
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post #31 of 45 Old 03-18-2017, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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First ever throttle body sync, at 23.000km (manual says every 10.000 duh!)

How i started



How i left it at



Bike got way too hot (and fan wouldn't kick in...wonder why)
So i had to shut it off and couldn't leave it in parts. It's way better than before anyway.
Planning on a coolant change, maybe tomorrow.
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post #32 of 45 Old 03-18-2017, 03:19 PM
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Looks great,, fan would have to be well the fan is bad or the sender.
Assuming there is power going to it.
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post #33 of 45 Old 03-19-2017, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Coolant change today

Old coolant vs fresh





Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
Looks great,, fan would have to be well the fan is bad or the sender.
Assuming there is power going to it.
I'm going to check the fan within the following week.(I have to take the airbox out...again!!!^@^%$@*) I already checked the fan fuse and it was fine.
According to the service manual, there is a relay for the fan, but it is hidden in a relay box(?) and i'm not sure if i can check this.
And the temp sensor goes straight to the ECU.So i assume there is one sensor for gauge reading and fan.Since my reading is fine, i assume the sensor is too.
We'll see...
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post #34 of 45 Old 03-19-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZ View Post
Coolant change today

Old coolant vs fresh







I'm going to check the fan within the following week.(I have to take the airbox out...again!!!^@^%$@*) I already checked the fan fuse and it was fine.
According to the service manual, there is a relay for the fan, but it is hidden in a relay box(?) and i'm not sure if i can check this.
And the temp sensor goes straight to the ECU. So i assume there is one sensor for gauge reading and fan.Since my reading is fine, i assume the sensor is too.
We'll see...
Glad you swapped the coolant... that looks like it was well past it's prime.

I would try and power the fan directly, to make sure you chase the right issue..... many fans fail when they get jammed; a very few have a fuse that recovers. Most don't, and rely on the fuse in the box to protect the wiring.
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"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #35 of 45 Old 03-20-2017, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
Glad you swapped the coolant... that looks like it was well past it's prime.

I would try and power the fan directly, to make sure you chase the right issue..... many fans fail when they get jammed; a very few have a fuse that recovers. Most don't, and rely on the fuse in the box to protect the wiring.
Tested the fan...working.
Fuse ok.

Now what?
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post #36 of 45 Old 03-21-2017, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZ View Post
Tested the fan...working.
Fuse ok.

Now what?
There should only be a few other components.... the temp sensor which indicates the temp to the ECU, then the ECU, which commands the relay that provides power to the fan. The loop has to be complete for both the control line, and for the power. That means the wiring all has to be intact, and making good electrical contact where it is meant to.

If the fan will run directly, that's obviously not the fault.
If you have a temp reading on your instrument display, the temp sensor should be okay.

That leaves the ECU, the relay, or the wiring.

If you have a meter, you can check to see the ECU is sending the right signal to the relay.... since that's the most expensive part that seems like something we should eliminate as soon as possible.

If the voltage on the pin on the ECU that is meant to activate the relay changes as it should when the motor gets up to temp, the relay is likely not using that signal as it is meant to. you need to make sure that the voltage gets all the way to the coil of the relay and that the other side of the relay's coil is getting back to the battery.

A relay is a very simple electric motor -- when you apply power across the coil, the armature moves from the Normally Closed pin, to the Normally Open. Power from the battery is supposed to be constantly present on the Common pin, and goes whichever way the armature sends it.

You can also check the relay's action, by applying 12VDC to the coil pin and checking to hear the 'click'.

You can also use your meter to Ohm between the 'C' and 'NO' pins -- that should be wide open (infinite) with no power applied. The opposite should be true if you measure between the 'C' and the 'NC'..... that should be a dead short, and go open when you apply power.

It is not all that uncommon for relays to eventually wear out and fail.... but I would just as readily expect that there is a corroded contact which is preventing everything from working.
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Last edited by RJ2112; 03-21-2017 at 07:49 AM. Reason: changed thermostat to temp sensor --doh!
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post #37 of 45 Old 03-22-2017, 04:28 AM
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hows the fairing?
good fit? and this set is made by our real injection mold,
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post #38 of 45 Old 03-23-2017, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
There should only be a few other components.... the temp sensor which indicates the temp to the ECU, then the ECU, which commands the relay that provides power to the fan. The loop has to be complete for both the control line, and for the power. That means the wiring all has to be intact, and making good electrical contact where it is meant to.

If the fan will run directly, that's obviously not the fault.
If you have a temp reading on your instrument display, the temp sensor should be okay.

That leaves the ECU, the relay, or the wiring.

If you have a meter, you can check to see the ECU is sending the right signal to the relay.... since that's the most expensive part that seems like something we should eliminate as soon as possible.

If the voltage on the pin on the ECU that is meant to activate the relay changes as it should when the motor gets up to temp, the relay is likely not using that signal as it is meant to. you need to make sure that the voltage gets all the way to the coil of the relay and that the other side of the relay's coil is getting back to the battery.

A relay is a very simple electric motor -- when you apply power across the coil, the armature moves from the Normally Closed pin, to the Normally Open. Power from the battery is supposed to be constantly present on the Common pin, and goes whichever way the armature sends it.

You can also check the relay's action, by applying 12VDC to the coil pin and checking to hear the 'click'.

You can also use your meter to Ohm between the 'C' and 'NO' pins -- that should be wide open (infinite) with no power applied. The opposite should be true if you measure between the 'C' and the 'NC'..... that should be a dead short, and go open when you apply power.

It is not all that uncommon for relays to eventually wear out and fail.... but I would just as readily expect that there is a corroded contact which is preventing everything from working.

I have temp reading so i suppose that the sensor is ok.
I tested the relay and it is working.

But i got confused when i turned the key of the ignition...
I measured the pins of the relay connector that activate the relay(18,19) and i had a reading!!! I thought that there shouldn't be a reading until the ECU sends a signal.
Bike was cold, so i was expecting not to have a reading until it got hot.
On the other hand, 17,20 had nothing.


I thought it would be easy and i also thought that i understood how the circuit worked.
Now i am lost...
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post #39 of 45 Old 03-24-2017, 05:20 AM
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You have to have a difference of potential to get the current to flow. If both sides are at 12V, no current. When one is 12 and the other zero, current flow.

Pin 18 may be pulled 'low' by the ECU.... the active signal from the ECU may be grounding that pin.

Pin 17 -20 (Normally Open) on the relay side should read infinite Ohms, with no power applied, and should then read nearly zero Ohms when that difference of potential is applied between pins 18 and 19.
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post #40 of 45 Old 03-24-2017, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
I have temp reading so i suppose that the sensor is ok.
I tested the relay and it is working.
You have a reading on the cluster?
Some older models have two, one for the cluster, don't know if yours does or not.
The second is a switch that closes once a set temperature is met.

Quote:
But i got confused when i turned the key of the ignition...
I measured the pins of the relay connector that activate the relay(18,19) and i had a reading!!! I thought that there shouldn't be a reading until the ECU sends a signal.
You have a reading, what is it.
Put one lead on the battery negative the other on 18, then 19. What do you get.
IF nothing. Put one lead (of the meter) on the positive post of the battery. Repeat readings on 18 and 19. What do you get.

Quote:
Bike was cold, so i was expecting not to have a reading until it got hot.
On the other hand, 17,20 had nothing.
Repeat voltage check from above on both sides 17 and 20. What do you get.

I don't have your schematics of your model. Print them out to a PDF and attach them to a post.
Want to trace the circuit from the fan back.
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post #41 of 45 Old 03-26-2017, 06:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
You have to have a difference of potential to get the current to flow. If both sides are at 12V, no current. When one is 12 and the other zero, current flow.

Pin 18 may be pulled 'low' by the ECU.... the active signal from the ECU may be grounding that pin.

Pin 17 -20 (Normally Open) on the relay side should read infinite Ohms, with no power applied, and should then read nearly zero Ohms when that difference of potential is applied between pins 18 and 19.
I know very little about electric circuits, it's the first time i come across this stuff.Anyway, i test what you tell me to and i hope there is a result.
I did measure the relay 18,19 did have a small resistance and 17,20 infinite.When i run cables from the battery to 18,19, i heard a "click" and 17,20 had no resistance anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
You have a reading on the cluster?
Some older models have two, one for the cluster, don't know if yours does or not.
The second is a switch that closes once a set temperature is met.


You have a reading, what is it.
Put one lead on the battery negative the other on 18, then 19. What do you get.
IF nothing. Put one lead (of the meter) on the positive post of the battery. Repeat readings on 18 and 19. What do you get.


Repeat voltage check from above on both sides 17 and 20. What do you get.

I don't have your schematics of your model. Print them out to a PDF and attach them to a post.
Want to trace the circuit from the fan back.
I don't know what schematics you want, i found this, is that it?


My bike is a '09, i think it only has one temp sensor.

Multimeter out and testing
ignition switch off
meter at pin 17 and negative reads 12.1V
meter at pin 18 and positive reads 12.1V
meter at pin 19 and positive reads 11.4V

ignition switch on
meter at pin 17 and negative reads 11.8V
meter at pin 18 and negative reads 11.7V
meter at pin 19 and positive reads 11.2V

Battery is 12.1V

pin 20 had no reading whatever i did...

I haven't got the time to warm it up, i can try within the week.
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post #42 of 45 Old 03-26-2017, 10:03 AM
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So at this point, we are pretty sure the relay works, the fan works, and the temp sensor is operational.

Now we need to make sure that the wires that are supposed to be sending signals and power where it should be, are.

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #43 of 45 Old 03-26-2017, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZ View Post
I have temp reading so i suppose that the sensor is ok.
I tested the relay and it is working.

But i got confused when i turned the key of the ignition...
I measured the pins of the relay connector that activate the relay(18,19) and i had a reading!!! I thought that there shouldn't be a reading until the ECU sends a signal.
Bike was cold, so i was expecting not to have a reading until it got hot.
On the other hand, 17,20 had nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZ View Post
I know very little about electric circuits, it's the first time i come across this stuff.Anyway, i test what you tell me to and i hope there is a result.
I did measure the relay 18,19 did have a small resistance and 17,20 infinite.When i run cables from the battery to 18,19, i heard a "click" and 17,20 had no resistance anymore.



I don't know what schematics you want, i found this, is that it?


My bike is a '09, i think it only has one temp sensor.

Multimeter out and testing
ignition switch off
meter at pin 17 and negative reads 12.1V
meter at pin 18 and positive reads 12.1V
meter at pin 19 and positive reads 11.4V

ignition switch on
meter at pin 17 and negative reads 11.8V
meter at pin 18 and negative reads 11.7V
meter at pin 19 and positive reads 11.2V

Battery is 12.1V

pin 20 had no reading whatever i did...

I haven't got the time to warm it up, i can try within the week.
The prints work, SO. 18, 19 one goes to fuse then ignition. The other ECU which would have to provide ground. Can't see clearly enough to tell which was which, but your statement.
Quote:
When i run cables from the battery to 18,19, i heard a "click" and 17,20 had no resistance anymore.
Says you can pull the relay in, and the pads are OK 17, 20.

But the measurment next mess me up.
Ignition off.
meter at pin 18 and positive reads 12.1V
meter at pin 19 and positive reads 11.4V
Since it says one goes to ignition switch, really surprised you have power to relay.
Guessing 18 goes to power.
IF 19 goes to ecu and should be open, to positive I would expect it to be zero volts unless the ecu is calling for the relay to be energized with ignition off, should be open to ground.

With ignition on you get
meter at pin 18 and negative reads 11.7V
meter at pin 19 and positive reads 11.2V
Basically same as above. Very ODD.

If you measure across 17 to 20 on voltage, You will have battery voltage with relay open.
Zero voltage when it closes.

As RJ2112 need to confirm wires ok to and from relay.
Something isn't making sense. It's late. I'll read this again before the adult beverages are being served.
Not sure what I'm missing.
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post #44 of 45 Old 03-26-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
Looks great,, fan would have to be well the fan is bad or the sender.
Assuming there is power going to it.

There's also the possibility that the fan has been pressed into the radiator and can't spin. This happened to my 09 despite the fact that it was never crashed. Just took the fan off, "bent" it back and presto chango it was fine again.
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post #45 of 45 Old 03-27-2017, 04:04 AM
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There's also the possibility that the fan has been pressed into the radiator and can't spin. This happened to my 09 despite the fact that it was never crashed. Just took the fan off, "bent" it back and presto chango it was fine again.
Good point, many have found a small rock to bind the fan, causing it to burn out.

Thought the OP said the fan would work if provided power.
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