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post #46 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brandon35 View Post
What are your thoughts on a bike as a whole? Not just shims and such but everything down to the wheel alignment on the swing arm and the tolerance of the spark plugs and even the fuel lines? Would that all cause differences in performance/reliability/wear? Certainly I think they would but where is the point that "good enough" takes effect, to where you can actually go out and enjoy the ride instead of worrying about wear and max performance? We all have limits to what we wish to do - some more than others - but is there a place where even you will stop tinkering with perfection? For me, I'd love to build a bike from the ground up and be as perfect as possible, but even the tools we use to measure certain parts have a tolerance of inaccuracy that we need to be aware of - especially if you have multiple of the same tool and end up using more than the one you started with. I'm not against what you said at all, I just want to know where you would stop and say "good enough".
Really

Good enough is not a measurement or in my tool box, so no........there is not a "good enough" standard I will accept in my day to day work

Of course money is finite, so I am bound by the rules of how much things cost just like everyone..

But just a couple quick examples;

Fork oil- most would assume that if you fill the forks within say about 2mm of each other that is "good enough"----you would never find that with me.....they are exactly the same--or as close as my tools can possibly measure.....it is free to do it correctly, why wouldn't you

Valve clearances, many think within spec is "good enough"...good enough is when they are perfect, that is when they are good enough, even with standard shim sizes you can easily attain a clearance variance of less than .0005" between all 8 of the intakes or all 8 of the exhausts.....again, why wouldn't you do it properly?

Cylinder bore? Big end rod roundness? etc........those can easily be made to be perfectly round (they don't come that way from the factory, and only get worse with use).......if you are in doing the work, why not make them perfect?--there is no good enough when it is so easy to do it right.

Throttle body sync/Carb sync.... again- easy to be perfect, so what the fuck is "good enough".... it is perfect, nothing else matters

Wheel alignment, chain free play, tire balance etc..........all the same deal.. Why be "good enough" when perfect is easily achievable.

The answer is LAZY !

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #47 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
Yes, Quality control!

Hot cams and all those aftermarket are barely surface hardened at best
And if you mic them, you will find that a bag of 5 "2.95" will range from 2.937-2.948...atleast the bag I checked did

but the real issue is they are not hardened sufficiently, despite what anyone tells you or thinks. And they will dent where the valve stem meets the shim and where the bucket dimple sits on the shim, especially if clearances get loose at all-even to the loose end of spec in most cases........then you get even bigger clearances and it escalates the problems

Kaw,Hon,Yam,Suz won't warranty any valve train issue if aftermarket shims were installed ..........they will decide that is the cause of the failure--I have been down this road with more than a couple customers already....... not that warranty is that big of a deal often---but that certainly should tell you something
I did notice the Kawasaki shims had a different color in the center of the shim where the tappet would hit. Looked like the shim was hardened differently in the center. The hot cams of course do not have that.

You are right about the thickness being all over the place as well.

I have the Hot Cams in three bikes right now. We do our valve clearances religiously so do you see any need for me to rush and get them out now or would you think it okay to just swap to OEM at my next regular clearance check?
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post #48 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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I see bikes frequently come in with aftermarket shims, I throw them out and put in oem

I have seen 3 times where an aftermarket shims has broken and taken the valve tip with it and the retaining washer and then gotten wedged under the bucket-holding the valve open........once enough to slam dunk the piston when it came up

While extreme cases for sure, I would take them out at your earliest convenience and not trust them, especially if you are running them in a track bike/race bike

Often I see these aftermarket shims coming out and they are "dented" on both sides, often by .0005" on each side, sometimes more.....that just added atleast .001" clearance to whatever you set them at- which to me is pretty unacceptable "wear".... considering they are only surface hardened about .001" in- how much longer do you suppose those shims already dented through half that will last before there are through the hard coating?

FYI--Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha all use the same 7.5mm shims- and Honda sells them for the least amount of money, so you can buy shims (in your appropriate thickness need) from any Honda dealer for less money....VFR800,CBR (all of them) all take 7.5mm shims-----Some of the Kawasaki's, require thicker than 3.05mm and that is the highest Honda goes to, then you do need to go with the oem Kawasaki shim for a little more money each
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #49 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
I see bikes frequently come in with aftermarket shims, I throw them out and put in oem

I have seen 3 times where an aftermarket shims has broken and taken the valve tip with it and the retaining washer and then gotten wedged under the bucket-holding the valve open........once enough to slam dunk the piston when it came up

While extreme cases for sure, I would take them out at your earliest convenience and not trust them, especially if you are running them in a track bike/race bike

Often I see these aftermarket shims coming out and they are "dented" on both sides, often by .0005" on each side, sometimes more.....that just added atleast .001" clearance to whatever you set them at- which to me is pretty unacceptable "wear".... considering they are only surface hardened about .001" in- how much longer do you suppose those shims already dented through half that will last before there are through the hard coating?

FYI--Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha all use the same 7.5mm shims- and Honda sells them for the least amount of money, so you can buy shims (in your appropriate thickness need) from any Honda dealer for less money....VFR800,CBR (all of them) all take 7.5mm shims-----Some of the Kawasaki's, require thicker than 3.05mm and that is the highest Honda goes to, then you do need to go with the oem Kawasaki shim for a little more money each
This is VERY helpful. Thank you riverszzr and WELCOME BACK!!!!
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post #50 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
Really

Good enough is not a measurement or in my tool box, so no........there is not a "good enough" standard I will accept in my day to day work

Of course money is finite, so I am bound by the rules of how much things cost just like everyone..

But just a couple quick examples;

Fork oil- most would assume that if you fill the forks within say about 2mm of each other that is "good enough"----you would never find that with me.....they are exactly the same--or as close as my tools can possibly measure.....it is free to do it correctly, why wouldn't you

Valve clearances, many think within spec is "good enough"...good enough is when they are perfect, that is when they are good enough, even with standard shim sizes you can easily attain a clearance variance of less than .0005" between all 8 of the intakes or all 8 of the exhausts.....again, why wouldn't you do it properly?

Cylinder bore? Big end rod roundness? etc........those can easily be made to be perfectly round (they don't come that way from the factory, and only get worse with use).......if you are in doing the work, why not make them perfect?--there is no good enough when it is so easy to do it right.

Throttle body sync/Carb sync.... again- easy to be perfect, so what the fuck is "good enough".... it is perfect, nothing else matters

Wheel alignment, chain free play, tire balance etc..........all the same deal.. Why be "good enough" when perfect is easily achievable.

The answer is LAZY !
Fucking A. : My OCD will not accept anything less.

............................................SKCUS-ESOR.............................................. .....
[IMG]        <a href=http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x350/ond1128/IMG_9474- 2.jpg target=_blank>http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/...MG_9474- 2.jpg</a>
.............................Have Bike, Will Travel...............................

"The world is a book, & those who do not travel,
read only one page"
.................................................. .... - St Augustine.

Last edited by oldninjadude; 03-19-2015 at 02:22 PM.
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post #51 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
Really



Good enough is not a measurement or in my tool box, so no........there is not a "good enough" standard I will accept in my day to day work



Of course money is finite, so I am bound by the rules of how much things cost just like everyone..



But just a couple quick examples;



Fork oil- most would assume that if you fill the forks within say about 2mm of each other that is "good enough"----you would never find that with me.....they are exactly the same--or as close as my tools can possibly measure.....it is free to do it correctly, why wouldn't you



Valve clearances, many think within spec is "good enough"...good enough is when they are perfect, that is when they are good enough, even with standard shim sizes you can easily attain a clearance variance of less than .0005" between all 8 of the intakes or all 8 of the exhausts.....again, why wouldn't you do it properly?



Cylinder bore? Big end rod roundness? etc........those can easily be made to be perfectly round (they don't come that way from the factory, and only get worse with use).......if you are in doing the work, why not make them perfect?--there is no good enough when it is so easy to do it right.



Throttle body sync/Carb sync.... again- easy to be perfect, so what the fuck is "good enough".... it is perfect, nothing else matters



Wheel alignment, chain free play, tire balance etc..........all the same deal.. Why be "good enough" when perfect is easily achievable.



The answer is LAZY !

I didnt mean being lazy, i meant when is the point where you stop tinkering and just go ride the bike? Of course if im doing work on my bike im going to do everything as perfectly as possible, but when do you stop breaking everything down and just go ride?

Superstitious? No, but I am a little stitious - Micheal Scott

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post #52 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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I didnt mean being lazy, i meant when is the point where you stop tinkering and just go ride the bike? Of course if im doing work on my bike im going to do everything as perfectly as possible, but when do you stop breaking everything down and just go ride?
I have 80k on this bike and put on about 40k on the 09 while I was also riding this bike. all in the past 6 seasons of riding
That is about 20k a year.... I ride plenty

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #53 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by oldninjadude View Post
Fucking A. : My OCD will not except anything less.
apparently your grammar will though.

except.......accept........totally different meanings

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #54 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 02:16 PM
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apparently your grammar will though.

except.......accept........totally different meanings
haha yeah my spelling sucks, And apparently your single.
what with all that time spent riding & tuning..
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post #55 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 02:18 PM
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apparently your grammar will though.

except.......accept........totally different meanings
Gota love this guy lol. If there's any advice I 100% trust it's here
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post #56 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 03:34 PM
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Gota love this guy lol. If there's any advice I 100% trust it's here

Maybe not girl advice - or how to be a decent human being

Superstitious? No, but I am a little stitious - Micheal Scott

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post #57 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 04:35 PM
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Question:

How does one vett a potential mechanic? Or more simply, Rivers if you weren't going to do the work your self, how would you satisfy yourself that the person you would pay would do good work?

For example: I have one open ended question I ask people in interviews which I use to gauge skill level. I can tell from the answer exactly how much knowledge the person has.

You have read enough of my posts and pms to have a good idea of my skill set.

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Last edited by Ey3l45h; 03-19-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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post #58 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe not girl advice - or how to be a decent human being
Get out of my thread and don't come back. You clearly haven't grown any with your time at bootcamp bullshit.
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #59 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ey3l45h View Post
Question:

How does one vett a potential mechanic? Or more simply, Rivers if you weren't going to do the work your self, how would you satisfy yourself that the person you would pay would do good work?

For example: I have one open ended question I ask people in interviews which I use to gauge skill level. I can tell from the answer exactly how much knowledge the person has.

You have read enough of my posts and pms to have a good idea of my skill set.

Ey3
Actually I couldn't tell you anything about any of your posts or pm's....... I read far too many on too many forums and get so many pm's from so many people I couldn't even venture a guess to what you may have sent me or asked me about anything mechanical.

If I couldn't do the work on my own vehicles I would shoot myself........

Your question is a long answer, with many facets and lots of variables.......

I am going to defer it til later when I have more time and have thought about it for a bit
But to start, research, (not from forums) so you have some good idea and understanding what you are needing and wanting is always a good place to start--then asking the right questions to guage if they know the procedure and can actually do it properly


I'll come back with a more thought out answer later

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #60 of 393 Old 03-19-2015, 05:09 PM
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Fair enough and thank you.

My personal rating of my skills is: I can follow explicit instructions, and use basic tools, but if creativity is required... Well I would rather not risk it. Maybe a 3-4 on a 10 scale.

Ey3

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The only time a leader should use the word "I" is in the sentence "I have to shit"

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