Thoughts on my new Arai helmet - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 08:31 AM
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OK,, not to start something.

Here is my question, sorry if this is a thread hijack.
I bought my helmet as it was a discontinued graphic design, like this helmet.
Arai Defiant Jolly Roger 2 Full Face Helmet 2013.. From there ad.
SO the question is when does the 5 year time start. From manufacture or when we start using it.
This is from Snell
Mine is about 4 years from when I started using it.
The date in the helmet is 2011.

Thoughts as I can't seem to find an answer when the time starts.
It's the manufacturing date. Materials start degrading from the beginning, they obviously don't know if the helmet is being used or not. Same as tires. A tire will get dry and brittle over time even if it's never been used at all.

Racing organizations and some track day organizations have the 5-year rule and the only way they can check is by checking the manufacturing date on the helmet. They don't care when you bought it. That's why when I got my Kabuto helmets now my main concern was the manufacturing date. Since it was such a great deal I knew they wouldn't be 2016 models, so I asked and it turned out they were made July 2014. So that means I can get about two and a half seasons out of them, maybe 3 depending on how strict some of those guys are who inspect them.

For street riding it doesn't matter as much. If I had a street bike I'd probably still be wearing my Quantum 2 Arai that was made in 2008, had it since 2011.

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post #17 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 08:40 AM
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It's the manufacturing date. Materials start degrading from the beginning, they obviously don't know if the helmet is being used or not. Same as tires. A tire will get dry and brittle over time even if it's never been used at all.

Racing organizations and some track day organizations have the 5-year rule and the only way they can check is by checking the manufacturing date on the helmet. They don't care when you bought it. That's why when I got my Kabuto helmets now my main concern was the manufacturing date. Since it was such a great deal I knew they wouldn't be 2016 models, so I asked and it turned out they were made July 2014. So that means I can get about two and a half seasons out of them, maybe 3 depending on how strict some of those guys are who inspect them.

For street riding it doesn't matter as much. If I had a street bike I'd probably still be wearing my Quantum 2 Arai that was made in 2008, had it since 2011.
For me this really changes things.
A 2013 helmet new would mean I could use it at the track for two years max. 2017, 2018 assuming it wasn't made in January 2013 which would be one year use.
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post #18 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 09:34 AM
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For me this really changes things.
A 2013 helmet new would mean I could use it at the track for two years max. 2017, 2018 assuming it wasn't made in January 2013 which would be one year use.
Yep exactly.

Although, you ride mostly with STT right? I don't recall them checking gear. I've never had to take any of my gear to tech inspection at their events.

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post #19 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
OK,, not to start something.

Here is my question, sorry if this is a thread hijack.
I bought my helmet as it was a discontinued graphic design, like this helmet.
Arai Defiant Jolly Roger 2 Full Face Helmet 2013.. From there ad.
SO the question is when does the 5 year time start. From manufacture or when we start using it.
This is from Snell
Mine is about 4 years from when I started using it.
The date in the helmet is 2011.

Thoughts as I can't seem to find an answer when the time starts.
I think Shoei (?) helmets have a five year warranty ending five years after purchase or 7 years after production. So it seems 7 years is about the safety limit. Now factor in a bit of marketing and desire to get you in to more than one helmet every 10 years....

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And look at those chicken strips too! What a squid!
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Easy answer bro....
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I hope your fork seals start leaking..........
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Part it out. Claim it stolen

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post #20 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 10:57 AM
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Yep exactly.

Although, you ride mostly with STT right? I don't recall them checking gear. I've never had to take any of my gear to tech inspection at their events.
Yes, mostly with STT. Once or twice a year with Midwest Track Day
They check gear when you have tech but have never looked at helmet date.
BUT I sure would be ticked being bumped because of that.
Not to mention, I'm frugal but not cheap. So if I need to will spend what's needed to stay legal.
That being said, I will be checking date when buying. I want the full 5 years so it's going to have to be a NEW helmet if I'm paying the new price.
Also did send Snell a question asking about the date. Will see what the lawyers come up with.
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post #21 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 01:09 PM
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Yes, mostly with STT. Once or twice a year with Midwest Track Day
They check gear when you have tech but have never looked at helmet date.
BUT I sure would be ticked being bumped because of that.
Not to mention, I'm frugal but not cheap. So if I need to will spend what's needed to stay legal.
That being said, I will be checking date when buying. I want the full 5 years so it's going to have to be a NEW helmet if I'm paying the new price.
Also did send Snell a question asking about the date. Will see what the lawyers come up with.
Yeah the only tech inspection guys that have ever checked the date on my helmet out of all places I've been to so far have been for CCS events. No track organization ever checked my date. The ones that even checked gear only looked to make sure it's a full face, 1-piece (not modular), and is Snell or ECE approved.

So what exactly did you ask Snell, and why Snell? They're just the test accreditation company, not a manufacturer. They just have the test procedures and if a helmet passes all their tests, the manufacturers can put the Snell sticker on their helmets. The warranty periods are set by the manufacturers. I would be interested to see what companies like Arai or Shoei say because they warranty their helmets for 5 years. But is that from manufacturing date or date of sale?

Of course that's only useful for warranty claims. Racing or track day orgs that have the 5-year rule don't give a rats ass about what the warranty on a helmet is. They just look at the manufacturing date and go by that. But yeah if you want to get your money's worth, buy new. That's what I wanted to, but then as I thought more about it I changed my thought process a bit. I thought "You know, I can spend $500-600 on a brand new helmet that I can use for up to 5 years, IF I don't crash it and damage it during that time...which is a fairly big IF. Orrrrr....I could buy something at a huge discount that might be a couple years old. So I ended up buying 2 helmets for $350 that I can only use for 2017, 2018, and most of 2019 seasons. If I crash one, I'll have a spare so no need to buy another. If I don't damage any of them, then I can just retire both of them at the end of 2019 and look for another closeout deal." So in the long run, I felt like this was more likely to be the better bang for the buck and now I have a helmet that I'll use on cold and/or wet days and the other will be used for most regular sunny summer days .

2007 ZZR600 (sold)
2006 CBR600 (sold)
2010 1198 (parted out across North America)
2013 CBR500R (race bike)
2009 ZX6R (race bike)
2015 R3 (project bike and future race bike)

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post #22 of 29 Old 02-05-2017, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
Yeah the only tech inspection guys that have ever checked the date on my helmet out of all places I've been to so far have been for CCS events. No track organization ever checked my date. The ones that even checked gear only looked to make sure it's a full face, 1-piece (not modular), and is Snell or ECE approved.

So what exactly did you ask Snell, and why Snell? They're just the test accreditation company, not a manufacturer. They just have the test procedures and if a helmet passes all their tests, the manufacturers can put the Snell sticker on their helmets. The warranty periods are set by the manufacturers. I would be interested to see what companies like Arai or Shoei say because they warranty their helmets for 5 years. But is that from manufacturing date or date of sale?

Of course that's only useful for warranty claims. Racing or track day orgs that have the 5-year rule don't give a rats ass about what the warranty on a helmet is. They just look at the manufacturing date and go by that. But yeah if you want to get your money's worth, buy new. That's what I wanted to, but then as I thought more about it I changed my thought process a bit. I thought "You know, I can spend $500-600 on a brand new helmet that I can use for up to 5 years, IF I don't crash it and damage it during that time...which is a fairly big IF. Orrrrr....I could buy something at a huge discount that might be a couple years old. So I ended up buying 2 helmets for $350 that I can only use for 2017, 2018, and most of 2019 seasons. If I crash one, I'll have a spare so no need to buy another. If I don't damage any of them, then I can just retire both of them at the end of 2019 and look for another closeout deal." So in the long run, I felt like this was more likely to be the better bang for the buck and now I have a helmet that I'll use on cold and/or wet days and the other will be used for most regular sunny summer days .
I asked Snell because they are a testing organization which makes me think there recommendations are used by manufactures for there dates.
Since I'm looking at a couple of companies and since Track or Race organizations state 5 years old, knowing which date is being used makes a difference.
Because my first track day most likely will be April A helmet made from January to April hurt the 5 year period.
I retired my Shoei at 7 years, never down. This Bell star is approaching 5 years and also is perfect.
What I'm interested in apart from the track day mandate is how the age really impacts the safety of the helmet.
Which is a reason I was looking hard at the Bell Race star.
I wore a back and chest protector for my protection before it was mandated.
Would I prefer to save the bucks and pay for another track day instead of putting it in a helmet OH YA.
If a $700 helmet is being sold for $350 and I only get 2 years VS paying $700 for 5 years. Seems it's cheaper to get new. IF indeed it is new.

Still looking at your helmet, sounds great.
Didn't mean to side track your thread.. Sorry.
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post #23 of 29 Old 02-06-2017, 03:40 PM
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Got a reply back from Snell.

Dear Mr. Bowers,

Thanks for your question. We figure the clock starts the first time the helmet is used. The protective components such as the shell, impact liner and chin strap don’t seem to age on the shelf but they are subject, particularly the impact liner, to wear and tear from routine use. An Arai model Defiant Jolly Roger 2 made in 2013 but which has been safely stored and unused till now is as good as the day it was made.

Thanks for your interest.

Ed Becker

So Great deal you bagged, thanks for the link. I'm seriously looking at it.
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post #24 of 29 Old 02-06-2017, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Nice!!!

Needless to say, my 2005 Shoei X-11 is done no matter how bad I want to keep wearing it...

Still can't believe I got a 2015 Defiant for $325

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And look at those chicken strips too! What a squid!
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Easy answer bro....
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Part it out. Claim it stolen
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post #25 of 29 Old 02-07-2017, 07:06 AM
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My 2 cents on helmet life:

5 years is a good rule of thumb for manufacturers to put out there because a lot can happen in 5 years. They don't know if it's under glass on display in a "collection" or if it's getting used daily and left in garages next to cans of gas while the temps swing up and down in a barely insulated room. This is the same reason it is smart for a race sanctioning body to put a date limit on helmets.

When I was a daily rider, I could go about a year or two before a helmet felt like it needing replacing. Pads get compressed worn out, removable liners can only get so clean. I even tried replacing cheek pads on one helmet and the rest of the padding still felt like crap.

My current helmet is at least three years old, but feels amazing because I've only worn it for maybe 40 or 50 rides. The rest of the time it's been in a closet in a climate controlled environment. It still feels new. I bought the helmet after a crash and then barely rode my last bike before I sold it. With the ZX6R in the garage, I expect the helmet to see more use. But I think I'll probably go another 2 or 3 years before I feel like it needs replacing because I won't be riding daily.

Also, to the argument that resins and glue, etc start to deteriorate immediately. Not buying it. I also enjoy high end bicycles. A good carbon frame with all your fancy resins, etc. can last indefinitely with regular use. And Styrofoam itself (EPS liner of the helmet) is something that they have tried to get restaurants to stop using because it doesn't ever fully break down in nature. It's not something that starts falling apart unless it's been subjected to a really harsh environment.

Speaking of environment because I've touched on it twice now: someone mentioned it's the same for tires that sit on a bike or car for years and get dry rot. Take those same tires and keep them in a closet in a climate controlled house. They are going to last ages longer than the same exact tire mounted to a vehicle sitting outside.


TL;DR: No, it's not a good idea to wear that vintage Bell from the 70's you found at the flea market. However, if you've only worn that helmet in your closet maybe 100 times and it's 6 or 7 years old, you're probably fine.
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post #26 of 29 Old 02-07-2017, 07:50 AM
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My 2 cents on helmet life:

TL;DR: No, it's not a good idea to wear that vintage Bell from the 70's you found at the flea market. However, if you've only worn that helmet in your closet maybe 100 times and it's 6 or 7 years old, you're probably fine.
My understanding is that it's UV exposure, sweat, dust/debris, solvents, temp swings that wear out the construction. In a box on the shelf it should be golden.

That said, I bought an RF-1200 in 2015 that was mfg 2015 and I still got a deal. Check out:

compacc.com
motorcyclecloseouts.com
clearance sections at Revzilla.com or SportBikeTrackGear.com

Also check out eBay. Be sure if you're on eBay that you get the mfg date of the helmet AND that your seller has good rep and a return policy.


In the end, a lot of people also think that dropping your helmet from waist height is enough to wreck it and it's not safe anymore. An Arai designer put that to rest in an interview, but people still tout it.
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post #27 of 29 Old 02-25-2017, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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So i've had a chance to ride around. I've been riding my Magna, not my zx6r, so for aero, this is about as brutal as it gets. Here's my thoughts.

It's a great snug fit. Airflow is excellent and noticeable upon opening any of the vents. The dropdow chin spoliler does help a little with whirling cold coming in. But cold weather is cold weather. Arai straps are significantly shorter, but i think more compact as well.

Here's the thing about the fit, the brow of the helmet sits a touch higher on my brow, as opposed to my X11. The X11 did drop the brow because of design, plus it's a touch looser/older. This takes a little getting used to.

Buffeting is virtually non-existent. Shoulder checks are done without any readjustment needed.

Got the dark smoke screen. Great day visibility and negates the need for sunglasses. I personally think it's a bit less distorted than a colored mirror. I've ridden with it at night, as i don't switch to a clear shield. In the city, this is fine. I can't speak to rural riding.

Taking visor in and out is a slight challenge, but one that you can get used to. There's tons of videos because it seems daunting. Always best done with helmet facing away from you for sure.

Has cutouts for a Sena-type comm/speaker setup. I have one, although i have not setup yet.

I didn't know if the helmet was absolutely perfect for me, with my head being between long/int oval. But i'm gonna stay with it. For the price i paid, it just can't be beat. I'll get an X-14 eventually for track days. Although i'm sure this one would do, merely on it's aerodynamic merit.
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And look at those chicken strips too! What a squid!
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Easy answer bro....
Thug is native American
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I hope your fork seals start leaking..........
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Originally Posted by Scorpi0 View Post
Part it out. Claim it stolen

Last edited by laggy311; 02-26-2017 at 11:40 PM.
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post #28 of 29 Old 02-25-2017, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Here it is standing: atoms with consciousness; matter with curiosity. Stands at the sea, wonders at wondering: I, a universe of atoms an atom in the universe. - Richard Feynman
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
And look at those chicken strips too! What a squid!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpi0 View Post
Easy answer bro....
Thug is native American
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
I hope your fork seals start leaking..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpi0 View Post
Part it out. Claim it stolen
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post #29 of 29 Old 02-27-2017, 05:28 PM
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Not a fan of the black personally...but I like being a power ranger so yeah.

Nice Arai! They're quality helmets man, can't go wrong.
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