The Breakdown on Fuel Management Systems - Page 5 - ZX6R Forum
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post #61 of 126 Old 03-19-2013, 10:36 AM
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Our dyno has a ram air simulator that can produce wind speeds that mimic up to 170mph of real world ram air effects. This feature combined with our incredibly smart and accurate load cell, which can apply progressive drag that mimics wind drag, gives me the ability to make maps that are damn near spot on to real riding conditions.
where are you guys located? I'm planning on getting my bike dyno'd but the only place around here is Mach 1 and I do not believe they have that (I'll call and ask later today)
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post #62 of 126 Old 03-19-2013, 11:14 AM
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Yes and no. Dyno tuning is much more comprehensive, and it gives you the ability to determine what the exact ideal AFR for your bike is. Using the Z-AFM while riding gives you the most realistic tuning, since your bike is operating under real world circumstances. Our Z-AFM is not an auto tuner, per se, it's a fuel mapper. The Z-AFM operates more like a data acquisition sysytem, it logs data while you ride, then you go back in and review the data before applying the recommended changes. This gives the user absolute control over what goes into their fuel map.
It's not really necessary to continually tune your fuel map, your bike's atmospheric sensors do a fairly adequate job of keeping the fueling consistent with pressure and temperature changes. I can ride all weekend, from sea level, up through the mountains, into the high desert, and then up some more mountains, and I never notice a performance change in my bike. I re-map about 4-5 times a year, seasonally, but only b/c I have the z-afm and I can. The biggest advantage is for track riders and racers, it is much more essential for them to re-map at every track, since they are in the hunt for hundredths of seconds off their lap times. Street riders aren't going to notice the difference most of the time, as long as they have a good base map to start with.


You are absolutely correct, and this is something that is often overlooked; ram air effects do change the fueling requirements in a tune. Most dynos either do not have a ram air simulator or it is a fixed speed system, which is still inaccurate. Our dyno has a ram air simulator that can produce wind speeds that mimic up to 170mph of real world ram air effects. This feature combined with our incredibly smart and accurate load cell, which can apply progressive drag that mimics wind drag, gives me the ability to make maps that are damn near spot on to real riding conditions.
thats what i thought. The place i got my map done did have some sort of a giant fan because i could hear it but it might be worth asking if they have the top notch system like yours, although even if they didnt i wouldnt pay to get it remapped so maybe not.... One last thing. You say about all of this great technology you have which does sound very useful, but on a PCIII where you can only do one map for all gears unlike on the PCV, does the fan blowing air at your bike to mimic the ram air effect actually help, because 7,000rpm in 2nd is not the same as 7,000rpm in 3rd obviously so getting an accurate windspeed would literally impossible on the PCIII?

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Ram Air Mod - Kleen Air Mod
Short Stacks Mod - MWR Filter
MHP Full Exhaust - PCIII W/Custom Map
SP Quickshifter - 2012 Shock
SS braided Lines - GPR V4 Damper
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post #63 of 126 Old 03-19-2013, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Now that I am converting that bike back to street, I will be keeping the Z Fi and Z-AFM systems but not using a QS or TC.

Many thanks, Bazzaz, for making a great system!
Why not keep the full TC system on it? I love having those features for everyday use.

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where are you guys located? I'm planning on getting my bike dyno'd but the only place around here is Mach 1 and I do not believe they have that (I'll call and ask later today)
We are located in Chino Hills, however we don't technically do tuning for the public since we're a research facility and not a licensed repair shop. But hit my up on a PM and maybe I could help you out.

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thats what i thought. The place i got my map done did have some sort of a giant fan because i could hear it but it might be worth asking if they have the top notch system like yours, although even if they didnt i wouldnt pay to get it remapped so maybe not.... One last thing. You say about all of this great technology you have which does sound very useful, but on a PCIII where you can only do one map for all gears unlike on the PCV, does the fan blowing air at your bike to mimic the ram air effect actually help, because 7,000rpm in 2nd is not the same as 7,000rpm in 3rd obviously so getting an accurate windspeed would literally impossible on the PCIII?
Well, if you can't adjust fueling by gear, then it's better to have the fueling spot on for the upper gears rather than the lower gears, that's usually where it matters the most.


If you want the breakdown on fuel management systems, take some time to read this thread.
For a walk through on pulling FI Codes, check out this thread.
Questions about Flashed ECUs vs. Fuel Controllers? Try this one.
Got a Z-Fi TC System? Read This to get an idea of how it works.
Here's a link to some Kawasaki Service Manuals that I've got hosted for everyone's use.
And please check out my blog for more sage advice and technical ramblings.
Some basics about braking here.
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post #64 of 126 Old 03-19-2013, 01:39 PM
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Well, if you can't adjust fueling by gear, then it's better to have the fueling spot on for the upper gears rather than the lower gears, that's usually where it matters the most.
ah ok, you're going quicker so the ram air effect is greater plus you want it as accurate as you can so you hopefully have maximum power to help fight the drag i guess. Makes sense. Thanks

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Ram Air Mod - Kleen Air Mod
Short Stacks Mod - MWR Filter
MHP Full Exhaust - PCIII W/Custom Map
SP Quickshifter - 2012 Shock
SS braided Lines - GPR V4 Damper
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post #65 of 126 Old 03-23-2013, 10:51 AM
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My local racer/shop-owner swears by Bazzaz. He has years of experience with both PC and Bazzaz and always is quick to weigh the pros and cons. I love an informative insight from a third party. ET, you gave me that feeling in spite of working for one side. If I wasn't already convinced, this would have done it. My 2013 636 will be seeing a Z-Fi and Z-AFM very soon. I'm stoked.

2008 EX-250R (Traded in)
2007 GSX-R 600 (Sold)
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post #66 of 126 Old 03-23-2013, 02:39 PM
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My local racer/shop-owner swears by Bazzaz. He has years of experience with both PC and Bazzaz and always is quick to weigh the pros and cons. I love an informative insight from a third party. ET, you gave me that feeling in spite of working for one side. If I wasn't already convinced, this would have done it. My 2013 636 will be seeing a Z-Fi and Z-AFM very soon. I'm stoked.
you should be stoked....

i love the bazzaz system... i got rid of my pc5... put in a ZFi-with TC and QS...probably one of the best tuners out there that i know of, IMO...way more adjustability than PC3or5...and for lesser cost...
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post #67 of 126 Old 03-25-2013, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KakaFace View Post
My local racer/shop-owner swears by Bazzaz. He has years of experience with both PC and Bazzaz and always is quick to weigh the pros and cons. I love an informative insight from a third party. ET, you gave me that feeling in spite of working for one side. If I wasn't already convinced, this would have done it. My 2013 636 will be seeing a Z-Fi and Z-AFM very soon. I'm stoked.
You go to Tillery don't you? We've worked with him in the past, he's a pretty cool guy.


If you want the breakdown on fuel management systems, take some time to read this thread.
For a walk through on pulling FI Codes, check out this thread.
Questions about Flashed ECUs vs. Fuel Controllers? Try this one.
Got a Z-Fi TC System? Read This to get an idea of how it works.
Here's a link to some Kawasaki Service Manuals that I've got hosted for everyone's use.
And please check out my blog for more sage advice and technical ramblings.
Some basics about braking here.
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post #68 of 126 Old 03-25-2013, 09:17 AM
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Great fucking write up! A lot of noobs like myself have been given a lot of basis information based on owners particular choice between the different systems. At least now we have general breakdown to make a clear choice! Thanks man based on this information I'm going with the badazz
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post #69 of 126 Old 03-26-2013, 06:29 PM
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You go to Tillery don't you? We've worked with him in the past, he's a pretty cool guy.
Baaaahahhahaa I totally do. That's muh homie. He's good people and quite knowledgable. I pick his brain often. I'll actually be doing my first track day along with Tillery. I'm very excited. Streets of Willow.

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post #70 of 126 Old 03-27-2013, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Baaaahahhahaa I totally do. That's muh homie. He's good people and quite knowledgable. I pick his brain often. I'll actually be doing my first track day along with Tillery. I'm very excited. Streets of Willow.
Yeah I actually tried to get a job with him when I was about to graduate MMI, one of my best friends lives and Bako and is friends with him, but he didn't need anyone at the time. Guess it worked out for the best

Streets is a super fun track too, very tight and technical, I need to get back there. When is that track day?
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If you want the breakdown on fuel management systems, take some time to read this thread.
For a walk through on pulling FI Codes, check out this thread.
Questions about Flashed ECUs vs. Fuel Controllers? Try this one.
Got a Z-Fi TC System? Read This to get an idea of how it works.
Here's a link to some Kawasaki Service Manuals that I've got hosted for everyone's use.
And please check out my blog for more sage advice and technical ramblings.
Some basics about braking here.
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post #71 of 126 Old 03-27-2013, 08:46 AM
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When is that track day?
April 13th

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post #72 of 126 Old 03-27-2013, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Well damn, I can't make that one.


If you want the breakdown on fuel management systems, take some time to read this thread.
For a walk through on pulling FI Codes, check out this thread.
Questions about Flashed ECUs vs. Fuel Controllers? Try this one.
Got a Z-Fi TC System? Read This to get an idea of how it works.
Here's a link to some Kawasaki Service Manuals that I've got hosted for everyone's use.
And please check out my blog for more sage advice and technical ramblings.
Some basics about braking here.
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post #73 of 126 Old 03-27-2013, 05:14 PM
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Well damn, I can't make that one.
My bad, it's friday 4/12.

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post #74 of 126 Old 03-28-2013, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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Doesn't change anything, gotta work on fridays.


If you want the breakdown on fuel management systems, take some time to read this thread.
For a walk through on pulling FI Codes, check out this thread.
Questions about Flashed ECUs vs. Fuel Controllers? Try this one.
Got a Z-Fi TC System? Read This to get an idea of how it works.
Here's a link to some Kawasaki Service Manuals that I've got hosted for everyone's use.
And please check out my blog for more sage advice and technical ramblings.
Some basics about braking here.
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post #75 of 126 Old 03-29-2013, 05:11 PM
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great info!
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