Technical Information Needed - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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Technical Information Needed

Hi everyone,

I am part of my university's Formula Student design team and we have decided to use a 2013 Ninja 636 ZX-6R engine for our car. However, as I don't have access to a physical engine I am struggling to find some of the data I need for designing various other components for the competition. I would really appreciate it if someone could supply some information or point me in the direction of where I would find it. The information I need at the moment is the diameters of both the intake and exhaust ports.

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post #2 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 08:37 AM
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I'm not sure if this would help, but in the service manual it has many valve and valve seat measurements. The service manual can be downloaded from somewhere on this site, I think there is a service manual section.

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post #3 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 08:46 AM
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If you are talking about the intake and exhaust ports on the head itself, you may have to measure them directly..... I don't think the throttle body diameters are a perfect match to the intake ports, probably quite close, tho.

Exhaust side, I haven't a clue. I just know it will be bigger than the intake side.

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post #4 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 09:26 AM
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I don't have the actual port dimensions but.........

the throttle body throat will be within a mm or so of the intake port---of course the port tapers and flattens

the exhaust port is most definitely smaller diameter than the intake

Not sure how these dimensions would be needed for the car?

unless you plan to not use the stock intake (atleast to the throttle body) and stock headers....chopped up or otherwise

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #5 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 09:51 AM
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^^^I'm surprised to hear that about the exhaust ports.....Exhaust valves are always bigger than intake because of the expansion of the gasses during combustion. Why would the exhaust ports not match the valve area?

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #6 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 09:58 AM
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They can't use the stock intake because FSAE requires a restriction plate which when I was involved with them was 19 mm diameter (maybe it's changed now). Not sure on the headers, but I imagine if you're restricting air intake you'd probably want to downsize your exhaust headers too, but I could be wrong. I don't have enough knowledge of engines.

OP, it's a good motor to get for this task hence FSAE changed the rules a few years ago to allow up to 650cc I4 engines, pretty much to accommodate this bike. I was an adviser for the team at my university during their first year, since they needed a lot of help. Not easy to start a program like this from scratch. And since Kawasaki has a plant here in my town, they got sponsorship from them so they used a 2009 zx6r engine which they converted to run on E85 (also due to some sponsorship agreement).

What country and university are you with?

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
^^^I'm surprised to hear that about the exhaust ports.....Exhaust valves are always bigger than intake because of the expansion of the gasses during combustion. Why would the exhaust ports not match the valve area?
You have that backwards, exhaust valves are always smaller than the intake valves............ combustion- you are burning away the fuel and oxygen, thus less exits than enters the combustion chamber
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 10:17 AM
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You have that backwards, exhaust valves are always smaller than the intake valves............ combustion- you are burning away the fuel and oxygen, thus less exits than enters the combustion chamber
Chemistry and physics would lead me to another conclusion...... no mass is consumed, and we are increasing the energy...... the volume has to increase, or pressure goes up. That's what drives the piston down, isn't it?



No disrespect intended....you have spent far, far more time I side engines than I have.
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"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
You have that backwards, exhaust valves are always smaller than the intake valves............ combustion- you are burning away the fuel and oxygen, thus less exits than enters the combustion chamber
Nope, conservation of mass. On the intake side you only have atmospheric pressure (in a naturally aspirated engine) to drive your air/fuel fluid mixture into the cylinder. On the exhaust stroke you have positive displacement, so it is easy to get the fluid out. Since you only have a limited size in the cylinder head to work with, then it makes since to help out the intake side. At least that is my understanding.
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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I had a look in the service manual - didn't see anything. Does anyone have a head so they can measure the intake and exhaust ports as I can't get access to an engine to measure it myself. The reason I need this is as someone stated above - we have to design a custom intake and exhaust system.

Last edited by PDAND; 01-07-2017 at 02:09 PM.
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 04:34 PM
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So you are not looking for measurements at the valves, but on the other end? On the intake side it splits from a large hole at the bottom of the throttle body to 2 smaller holes at the valves. The same would be true on the exhaust side, 2 valves into one pipe. So you want to throttle body side and the header side right?

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Last edited by trackdayhero; 01-07-2017 at 10:29 PM.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 04:47 PM
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Oh, and for the rest of you guys you should know better than to question rivers. He's right you know. Now, can anyone give the "correct" reason why intake valves are larger than exhaust valves?

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post #13 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDAND View Post
I had a look in the service manual - didn't see anything. Does anyone have a head so they can measure the intake and exhaust ports as I can't get access to an engine to measure it myself. The reason I need this is as someone stated above - we have to design a custom intake and exhaust system.
Wouldn't hurt to get in contact with other FSAE teams that have used that engine before. Look up the entry lists from past years and see who's used it. Most teams are willing to help each other out with things like this.

Another option, though a long shot, would be to contact Kawasaki and ask for the info you need. If you explain why you need it for, they might even be able to give you a drawing of it.

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post #14 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 05:03 PM
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Oh, and for the rest of you guys you should know better than to question rivers. He's right you know. Now, can anyone give the "correct" reason why intake valves are larger than exhaust valves?
To make this very over simplified;

atmospheric pressure is mostly used to fill the combustion chamber

pressurized cylinder is used to expel exhaust gases

obviously it is far more complex than this.............but this is the dumbed down simpleton explanation
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-07-2017, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
To make this very over simplified;

atmospheric pressure is mostly used to fill the combustion chamber

pressurized cylinder is used to expel exhaust gases

obviously it is far more complex than this.............but this is the dumbed down simpleton explanation
And here's the longer version:

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-int...n-an-IC-engine
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