99 Master Cylinder Stuck? - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-20-2017, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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99 Master Cylinder Stuck?

On the 99 zx6r I'm rebuilding, the master cylinder piston seems to be stuck fully compressed. The lever doesn't touch it at all. Any ideas what is up? I'm guessing the only real course of action is to clean/rebuild it. If there are any other fixes or items that could cause this I'd appreciate your thoughts.

If rebuilding is the case, I'll be buying a used replacement since this one has some scrape/ground down damage from what I'm guessing are some rough stunt days in her previous life. If I can get it working without buying anything, I'll leave it as is.
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-20-2017, 02:56 PM
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Yes, a rebuild would be necessary at that point however considering the age of the unit I would source something more modern from EBAY or whatever. I generally look for master cylinders from 06+ R6 or R1 as they are made by Brembo and are a quality unit. It is a bolt-on replacement for the master cylinder you are currently using.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-20-2017, 04:07 PM
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painfull slow ,i done that with my j series ,i fitted an 06 r6 brembo m/c best thing i ever fitted,as the previous m/c stock nissin was always soggy and shit ,i had the r6 m/c working along side nissin 4 pots my braking was best it ever was than its stock set up,,might be worth a complete change from the stock set up m harrison
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-20-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
Yes, a rebuild would be necessary at that point however considering the age of the unit I would source something more modern from EBAY or whatever. I generally look for master cylinders from 06+ R6 or R1 as they are made by Brembo and are a quality unit. It is a bolt-on replacement for the master cylinder you are currently using.
Won't an '06 R6 master cylinder require a new brake line with a 90 degree fitting at the connection to the master? The '99 zx6r fitting is off of the end of the master directly opposite the lever and the '06 R6 fitting is directly beneath the master.

'06 R6 Master


'99 zx6r Master


It seems that I also read somewhere that using a radial master wouldn't work with the Tokico brake calipers. Is that not accurate?

Last edited by mharrison; 03-20-2017 at 06:40 PM.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-21-2017, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mharrison View Post
Won't an '06 R6 master cylinder require a new brake line with a 90 degree fitting at the connection to the master? The '99 zx6r fitting is off of the end of the master directly opposite the lever and the '06 R6 fitting is directly beneath the master.

'06 R6 Master


'99 zx6r Master


It seems that I also read somewhere that using a radial master wouldn't work with the Tokico brake calipers. Is that not accurate?
That is a good point but I have always had enough slack in the line to allow for the bend however at 18 years old, you may want to consider replacing the lines anyway. It is not ideal to have that loop in your brake lines (bleeding becomes a chore) but as long as the suspension can go its full travel without interference from the brake lines, there is no other detriment.

The two MC designs in use are radial (the new one) and axial (your old one). This refers to the orientation of the piston inside the MC relative to the lever pull. Radial puts the axis of the piston parallel to the lever pull, axial puts the piston axis perpendicular to the lever pull. Radial is generally a better design in that it tends to be stiffer and provide better feedback. Other than that, a MC's job is to push fluid through a tube which they both do the same.

I have heard that rumor circulating for many, many years and unfortunately it is one born of ignorance. There is no such thing as a caliper that only works with one style or another.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-21-2017, 04:11 AM
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If you have enough slack in your lines they will fit. My old zx10r had a axial that I switched with a newer radial and the lines i bought for that master fit the new one. Just took some work routing them so they fit nicely. If you don't already have SS lines, get some lines were made for a radial.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-21-2017, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
[...] I generally look for master cylinders from 06+ R6 or R1 as they are made by Brembo and are a quality unit. It is a bolt-on replacement for the master cylinder you are currently using.
Holy crap! I've got a set of new seals for the calipers of my G2, but I'm going to hunt on eBay for a s/h master cylinder if this works. The feel of the front brakes is definitely the weakest part of this model. I've already got braided lines on mine, but the feel at the lever is still crap.

Will this be a straight replacement with any R1/R6 M/C post '06, or just within a certain range?

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post #8 of 20 Old 03-21-2017, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
I have heard that rumor circulating for many, many years and unfortunately it is one born of ignorance. There is no such thing as a caliper that only works with one style or another.
Thanks for clearing that up PainfullySlo! I found it a bit odd that a caliper wouldn't respond well to a radial master vs. an axial. Either one is really just a pump at it's most basic level.

I didn't want to shell out for an upgrade and have an incompatibility issue. But now I can go shopping and get in a bidding war with Twistee!
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I'm going to hunt on eBay for a s/h master cylinder if this works.
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-22-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mharrison View Post
[...] now I can go shopping and get in a bidding war with Twistee!
Race ya, mharrison!

I've got a new piston, cups and spring coming for the standard master cylinder. I'll fit it this weekend. If this doesn't fix things, an R6/R1 M/C is definitely in my future.

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post #10 of 20 Old 03-22-2017, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Race ya, mharrison!

I've got a new piston, cups and spring coming for the standard master cylinder. I'll fit it this weekend. If this doesn't fix things, an R6/R1 M/C is definitely in my future.
Found a great deal and ordered this today:
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-22-2017, 02:44 PM
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twistee are you still running your tockys ?i went to nissin 4 pots after the lever was shit hot ,there is an adaptor you can get from brembo ,as the r6 runs from beneath with the banjos but you can use your g/j lines with this part https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rc...90305442219578
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-23-2017, 06:01 AM
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Yeah. I'm still using the Tokico calipers and just received the parts to service the master cylinder today. I'm running braided lines as the standard ones are a joke, but if things don't improve, I'll start looking at alternatives.

Thanks for the tip on the adapter!
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-23-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mharrison View Post
Found a great deal and ordered this today:
That is absolute beast of a master cylinder. It is what I use on my race bike.

One word of caution: This MC is going to be many times better than your current one. Get used to having a VERY light touch on the brakes. I use one finger to brake and it is enough to lift the rear wheel...just FYI. I would hate to see you grab a fist full of brakes and go over the bars.
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-24-2017, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
That is absolute beast of a master cylinder. It is what I use on my race bike.

One word of caution: This MC is going to be many times better than your current one. Get used to having a VERY light touch on the brakes. I use one finger to brake and it is enough to lift the rear wheel...just FYI. I would hate to see you grab a fist full of brakes and go over the bars.
I generally have a light touch, but thanks for the word of caution. I imagine I'll be living with it on 18mm. I have no doubt that it is more than I need, but for the deal I got, I couldn't pass it up! I expect this will be moving with me from bike to bike.

I'll initially have this on the stock '99 Tokicos, but plan to upgrade to Nissin calipers eventually.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-26-2017, 05:15 PM
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Well, I rebuilt the master cylinder yesterday, but it's still crap.

I'm utterly jealous of your shiny Brembo unit, mharrison, but I can't stretch finances to match such exotica. However, I have found an eBay bargain on an '07 ZZR-1400 radial master cylinder. If it can haul the extra 60-ish kilos on that behemoth to a halt decently, I'll be amazed if it doesn't improve a '99 6R's braking power.

I've already got some braided lines at the front, and they have a decent amount of slack. I'll fit it up next weekend, and let you know what happens.

-------------------------------------------------------------

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1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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