'99 ZX6R won't start with out petrol cap open. - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 29 Old 04-07-2017, 01:01 PM
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As RJ mentioned, I'm leaning towards this being electrical. As the engine loads increase, the demand on the electrical system does as well. Just out of curiosity, have you put a meter on the battery to be sure the bike is charging?

Also, is your ram air system still in place? I've heard of similar issues with street fighter/naked bikes when the ram air system is gone.
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post #17 of 29 Old 04-09-2017, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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As RJ mentioned, I'm leaning towards this being electrical. As the engine loads increase, the demand on the electrical system does as well. Just out of curiosity, have you put a meter on the battery to be sure the bike is charging?

Also, is your ram air system still in place? I've heard of similar issues with street fighter/naked bikes when the ram air system is gone.
Yep, the RAM is still there and i have checked that all the hoses are connected that feed into the carbs...all looks good.

So, took the bike out this morning....Went to start her, same as before, had to open and close the fuel tank...looks like yesterday may have just been a placebo.

Anyway, she was spluttering like a troope on th emotorway so came back home. When i got home, i got a wet spounge and touched it against the headers

3+4 Instant sizzle

2 - Small amount of sizzle

1 - Barley anything

So, i think both you and RJ are right it's either an issue with the plugs or as it's both cylinder 1 and 2, maybe the coil pack?

Forgot i promised to take the better half out today, so more tinkering will have to wait until tomorrow but i might pick up a couple of new plugs, just encase.

I'm meant to be off on a tour Of Germany (via France, Belgium and Luxembourg) on Wednesday, let's hope i (we) can get to the bottom of this before then.

Once again, thank you all for you help this far!

Cheers,

Russ

EDIT - Itested all the ht leads with a known good spark plug...Seems i'm getting an intermittent spark on all 4 leads....Sometimes when i hold the plug to the engine it sparks other times not. Would this indicate a bad earth somewhere and if so where do i start looking??

Last edited by Rustyp81; 04-09-2017 at 07:17 AM.
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post #18 of 29 Old 04-09-2017, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Just a quick update,

I've just put a multi meter across the connectors of both the coil packs and i'm getting 10.7v. I'm getting 12.6v at the battery...

All the spark plug look a decent colour, tan/coffee brown....so i guess they are good.
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post #19 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 06:29 AM Thread Starter
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As a side note, would the carbs from a j model fit a G?

Just wondering as a friend has a J model but wanted to confirm that they will fit before tearing the bike down.

Thanks!

Russ
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post #20 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 06:47 AM
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Russ,

If you have two cylinders that don't fire well, and two that do.... swap the coil pack to the opposite side and see if the problem follows the pack. If 3-4 were 'hot' before and it moves to 1-2 after the swap -- that coil pack is probably bad.

There are readings in the shop manual to determine if it's breaking down. I believe they will all be resistance readings, rather than Voltages.

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #21 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Russ,

If you have two cylinders that don't fire well, and two that do.... swap the coil pack to the opposite side and see if the problem follows the pack. If 3-4 were 'hot' before and it moves to 1-2 after the swap -- that coil pack is probably bad.

There are readings in the shop manual to determine if it's breaking down. I believe they will all be resistance readings, rather than Voltages.
Thanks RJ.

I swapped the coils over yesterday (should have added this to my last reply!) and checked all the HT leads....Odd thing is that now i have 4 hot headers, so i guess on of the ht leads must have been loose, but still the problem persists!!

Is it worth swapping the crabs over to eliminate those?

Thanks

-Russ
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post #22 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 08:06 AM
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It sounds like you are chasing multiple issues, masquerading as one.

The ignition issue seems like it's on the verge of being solved.... I would want to Ohm everything, and make sure the proper grounds are in place so you have repeatable performance. Bright shiny metal on all contacts, etc. Proper torque to make sure the contacts are stable...

It is entirely possible that the carbs are also AFU. If the other set is known to be good, that's a logical step to determine if your problem is the carbs.

Carbs are fairly simple things.... when they work properly. When they sit for long periods, they develop varnish and goop that blocks the finest passages in them -- which are typically the slowest speed, lowest vacuum parts of the RPM range..... most often they get really nasty around idle, and possibly clear up higher in RPM. Someone could have tried to 'improve' the bike by blocking off smog controls, anti back fire stuff, etc..... done right = goodness. Done poorly ,,,, you are living the adventure.

The AFU may be due to bad vacuum, or hosed up float heights, or clogged fuel lines/passages in the carb bodies, gunk in the float bowls. It could be that the settings are messed up on one or more of the individual carbs. That's where a carb synch tool is so helpful.

Before you got the spark to work properly, you could not have used a tool to equalize performance cylinder to cylinder correctly...... still can't if the valves are way off the mark; but that's another story.

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #23 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again RJ, i do appreciate you taking the time out to assist!!

So as a bit of further background, at the 16k (~6 months ago) service the Valves were checked and where needed re shimmed. The carbs were also synced/balanced at the same time, so i'm hoping i don't have to get those done again.

The carbs i have to test are from a J model would it be ok to use these on a G?

With regards to the ground points, how many of these are there and where abouts are they located?

Cheers,

-Russ
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post #24 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 08:39 AM
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Thanks again RJ, i do appreciate you taking the time out to assist!!

So as a bit of further background, at the 16k (~6 months ago) service the Valves were checked and where needed re shimmed. The carbs were also synced/balanced at the same time, so i'm hoping i don't have to get those done again.

The carbs i have to test are from a J model would it be ok to use these on a G?

With regards to the ground points, how many of these are there and where abouts are they located?

Cheers,

-Russ
I'm hoping you have something as simple as bad gas in the tank, at this point.... if the valves are set, and the carbs were synch'd fairly recently -- when was the last time it ran well? I presume it went very well, when it came back from that service 6 months ago?

Shut off the fuel, and drain the float bowls to see what comes out. If you have some water in there that will play havoc on how it runs.

Has the bike been soaked in water any time recently?

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #25 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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I'm hoping you have something as simple as bad gas in the tank, at this point.... if the valves are set, and the carbs were synch'd fairly recently -- when was the last time it ran well? I presume it went very well, when it came back from that service 6 months ago?

Shut off the fuel, and drain the float bowls to see what comes out. If you have some water in there that will play havoc on how it runs.

Has the bike been soaked in water any time recently?
The Bike ran like a dream when it came back form the major service, i got put off doing the valves so paid to have it done.

Around 2 months ago it started these symptoms but i could generally power through it. Last time it was running well was probably a little over week ago.

Sadly, i live in England....The bike is always getting wet :

Cheers

Russ
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post #26 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 09:14 AM
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Have you changed petrol stations recently? We can see issues if you fill up right after the storage tank is filled, as that swirls up all the sediment in the holding tank; it also gets whatever water is in there up to where it can get picked up and pumped into your tank.

Dump your present fuel into a glass container, so you can see what settles out of it.

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #27 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Have you changed petrol stations recently? We can see issues if you fill up right after the storage tank is filled, as that swirls up all the sediment in the holding tank; it also gets whatever water is in there up to where it can get picked up and pumped into your tank.

Dump your present fuel into a glass container, so you can see what settles out of it.
You sir, are a genius!!

Drained the carbs and found that there were some blobs of unknown substance is the fuel. Swapped the tank and fuel filter from my friends bike and went for a ride. It was sluggish to start but once i got onto the dual carriageway and opened her up, she flew to the red line. Took the long way back home and covered ~50 miles, didn't miss a beat! It's amazing how quickly you can go from wanting to set your bike on fire to falling back in love with it!!

No really sure where the problem is, if it was the fact that there was crap in the float bowls, blocked fuel filter or crap in the tank (possibly all three?) but getting to the root cause can wait. She's going into the garage tomorrow for new fork seals and to swap the road pilots for super corsas and then it's a 1000 mile round trip to Germany.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed, in particular RJ and MHarrison.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for a well earned beer (or 5).

Cheers

-Russ
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post #28 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 02:22 PM
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You sir, are a genius!!

Drained the carbs and found that there were some blobs of unknown substance is the fuel. Swapped the tank and fuel filter from my friends bike and went for a ride. It was sluggish to start but once i got onto the dual carriageway and opened her up, she flew to the red line. Took the long way back home and covered ~50 miles, didn't miss a beat! It's amazing how quickly you can go from wanting to set your bike on fire to falling back in love with it!!

No really sure where the problem is, if it was the fact that there was crap in the float bowls, blocked fuel filter or crap in the tank (possibly all three?) but getting to the root cause can wait. She's going into the garage tomorrow for new fork seals and to swap the road pilots for super corsas and then it's a 1000 mile round trip to Germany.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed, in particular RJ and MHarrison.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for a well earned beer (or 5).

Cheers

-Russ
That is awesome news! I'm guessing the "blobs" were gelatinized (is that gelatinised for you?) petrol.
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post #29 of 29 Old 04-10-2017, 04:49 PM
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I'm betting on all three.... great news, that it CAN run smoothly. Gas with alcohol goes bad much more quickly than 'normal' fuel does.

Never store a bike with that sh!t in the tank without stabilizer....

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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