Doing Valve Adjustment - CAM markings? - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Doing Valve Adjustment - CAM markings?

Hi all,

I'm attempting to do a valve adjustment by myself for the first time. I've measured and all exhaust valves are out of spec, along with most of the intakes.

I'm at the part where I have to rotate 1,4 to TDC and removing the 20 bolts.

One thing I'm unsure of is the markings on the cams.

I can't for the life of me locate ANY markings on the cams. Am I just looking in the wrong place? I've watched some videos online and noticed others had their cams marked on the inside (facing towards the engine)

Could it possible that the 2006 just didn't have markings?
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 05:41 PM
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I have a 2006 600RR.. The markings are a mother, to see in the first place.
Second, it's even worse putting them back.

I know it sounds and IS a pain in the ass but you really should consider pulling the engine.
I WILL NEXT time.

If you don't, and I don't blame you which is why I didn't. (think PainFullSlo ) suggest I pull engine. Your going to need a mirror. The exhaust cam is the easiest to see, with the EX facing the headers. The IN on the intake is nuts.

NOW if you decide to not pull the engine. ONCE You find the marks. Get a Paint PEN.
Use some carb or brake cleaner on a Q-Tip and clean the area on the valve side of the cam and make marks that are DIRECTLY behind the EX and IN marks on the front you need a mirror to see.
They really need to be exact, because those marks are what your going to have the best chances of getting the cams facing correctly when they go back in.
I also then marked at the 12 oclock position the cam and the chain. TAKE pictures of that also.

ALSO take twice the number of pictures you think you will need, from 4 different angles of the cam marks and MOST importantly the LOBE positions. Take notes. The crank was on 1/4, I COULD check the following valves right before I took it apart.

Lastly, having a spare set of hands when you put the cams back in to keep the chain in position while the cam holder is torqued up is just about a must. I imagine practice makes perfect. It's just I did not have any before starting.

Doing the above for a lay person like myself is a must, and I didn't take enough pictures or notes. Since it was over a week before the shims cam in.
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post #3 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 05:46 PM
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on 2006 zx6r the markins are located on the outer side of the cams sprockets. They are facing the frame, that's why you cant see them.

on this videos it shows clearly where those IN, EX markins are.



but let me ask you, when you took valve clearance measurements your crank should have been already on 1,4 position. How come you are asking this question before taking cam over off?
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post #4 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblin View Post
on 2006 zx6r the markins are located on the outer side of the cams sprockets. They are facing the frame, that's why you cant see them.

on this videos it shows clearly where those IN, EX markins are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOzUREHmJis


but let me ask you, when you took valve clearance measurements your crank should have been already on 1,4 position. How come you are asking this question before taking cam over off?
Thanks so much for this video. I'll take a look to see if I can see any markings on the outer side of the cams.

When I measured the clearances I did them in order from left to right, instead of what the manual suggested. It was just easier to keep track. I measured at 1,4 and 2,3, then rotated to 1,4 again before undoing camshaft tensioner and removing the 20 bolts.

Have I done something wrong? This is a serious learning curve for me, and I knew the risks getting into it...So it's all good if I did.
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post #5 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 06:03 PM
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Try this chart.. don't remember if it had the corrected tolerances on it. SO DOUBLE check.

Great video, notice not in bike..
Great catch goblin, that was the reason I said use a mirror. I just wasn't clear why.. LOL..

OP,, read the entire section a dozen times. Do everything in order.
Details like putting the cam chain tensioner back in before rotating the engine IS HUGE.
(don't ask)
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post #6 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangn99 View Post
Thanks so much for this video. I'll take a look to see if I can see any markings on the outer side of the cams.

When I measured the clearances I did them in order from left to right, instead of what the manual suggested. It was just easier to keep track. I measured at 1,4 and 2,3, then rotated to 1,4 again before undoing camshaft tensioner and removing the 20 bolts.

Have I done something wrong? This is a serious learning curve for me, and I knew the risks getting into it...So it's all good if I did.
you were not supposed to take measurements at 2,3 position. At least the service manual does not say that.

http://service.tanga-moteurs.ro/data...e%20Manual.pdf

Page 2-26. It tells on which cylinder TDC which valves to measure.
But I honestly think they messed up #1 and #4 TDC's. I believe where they say #1 TDC you should read #4 TDC, and vice versa.
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post #7 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by goblin View Post
you were not supposed to take measurements at 2,3 position. At least the service manual does not say that.

http://service.tanga-moteurs.ro/data...e%20Manual.pdf

Page 2-26. It tells on which cylinder TDC which valves to measure.
But I honestly think they messed up #1 and #4 TDC's. I believe where they say #1 TDC you should read #4 TDC, and vice versa.
So I essentially measured each valve when the lobe was pointing outwards (away from motor). I can put everything back together and remeasure if this is incorrect.

To be quite honest, I didn't it easier to watch videos than read the manual. The manual, to me anyway, is difficult to navigate and understand. I'm also really really new at this though.

These are the measurements I got based on instructions I followed from a video, manual and random websites.
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post #8 of 18 Old 04-15-2017, 07:47 PM
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I must confess it was not easy for me to read the manual either.
I after years of maintaining my Harleys I grew spoiled by the quality of their shop books.
Kawi's manuals cannot be accused of prolixity.
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post #9 of 18 Old 04-16-2017, 08:06 AM
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I choose to measure a single cylinder at a time

ie;

#1 @ TDC and measure only #1 clearances
#2 @ TDC and measure only #2 clearances
#4 @ TDC and measure only #4 clearances
#3 @ TDC and measure only #3 clearances

then if any are going to need adjusting...........and high probablity that they will
I loosen the cam cap bolts and re-torque and measure again before actually removing and changing shims

as how you torque the cam caps vs how they were at, will change clearance valaues..............
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post #10 of 18 Old 04-16-2017, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
I choose to measure a single cylinder at a time

ie;

#1 @ TDC and measure only #1 clearances
#2 @ TDC and measure only #2 clearances
#4 @ TDC and measure only #4 clearances
#3 @ TDC and measure only #3 clearances

then if any are going to need adjusting...........and high probablity that they will
I loosen the cam cap bolts and re-torque and measure again before actually removing and changing shims

as how you torque the cam caps vs how they were at, will change clearance valaues..............
That's pretty much how I measured it on mine. At every cylinder I measured, the lobes were pointing away from the engine (TDC) as suggested online.

I put everything back together today. I used a mirror as suggested and I was able to locate the markings on the outside of the cams. Why would Kawasaki do this?!?!

I was able to count the pins on the chain and successfully counted the 28 as per the manual going from 1,2,3 to 28.

I re-torqued the cap bolts and remeasured and noticed the clearances were just slightly different (by like 0.01mm)

I'm going to triple check my measurements again and attempt marking the cam + chain before going any further.

Thanks for all the tips so far. I suspect someone was already in the motor at some point, since some in the bolts have wrench marks on them. The bike was also previously downed, so could be a scrap yard motor.

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post #11 of 18 Old 04-22-2017, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

Just a quick update. I haven't had much time to tinker with the bike as I'm also working on some backyard projects.
I managed to mark up the cams and chain with a marker, kept tension on the chain, and remove the cams.


Some of the exhaust valves have shims marked 8 6. When I measure these they come out at 2.96mm.

Does this mean a valve adjustment was done at some point on this bike? I can't find 8 6 marking in the manual. Should I assume it's 2.95 for go with that?


By the way, I'm averaging the tolerance (EX 0.22 ~ 0.31 = 0.265 IN 0.11 ~ 0.19 = 0.15) is the preferred method?
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-22-2017, 11:49 PM
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Measure every shim.

Accuracy is bound by your ability to measure.

What is the smallest increment you can measure with your calipers?

What is the smallest step in size of your feeler gauges? How many fall within the range allowed for the acceptable lash?

Whatever the biggest unit is, that's the limit of your accuracy.

Any number you use cannot be any more accurate than the greatest error.

Not trying to rain on your parade, simply stating the constraints anyone who does this has to deal with.
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post #13 of 18 Old 04-23-2017, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
Measure every shim.

Accuracy is bound by your ability to measure.

What is the smallest increment you can measure with your calipers?

What is the smallest step in size of your feeler gauges? How many fall within the range allowed for the acceptable lash?

Whatever the biggest unit is, that's the limit of your accuracy.

Any number you use cannot be any more accurate than the greatest error.

Not trying to rain on your parade, simply stating the constraints anyone who does this has to deal with.
Thanks. I get accuracy is critical, but then wahat confuses me is that after all this careful measuring im simply supposed to the average of the tolerance? Doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of being extra accurate with everything?

Also, what am I supposed to do if the measured shim is, say, 3.13mm. Do I round up, round down?

Thanks again

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post #14 of 18 Old 04-23-2017, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangn99 View Post
Thanks. I get accuracy is critical, but then wahat confuses me is that after all this careful measuring im simply supposed to the average of the tolerance? Doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose of being extra accurate with everything?

Also, what am I supposed to do if the measured shim is, say, 3.13mm. Do I round up, round down?

Thanks again

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If you can measure 3.13, use that number(it's really somewhere between 3.12, and 3.14). Don't do any averaging on that. But don't think it's 3.1325678. You are going to end up with 'stacking tolerance'..... the parts will not measure exactly what you expect when you are done. -- odds are very good you will have to pull the cams twice to get the values you want.

If your feeler gauges give you something that falls inside the specified range, you should run with the gauge that is closest to the middle of the tolerance. That's your target. When you measure the shim that was in place that got you to XX gap, and you intend to replace that one with another shim to increase the gap to YY -- obviously the new shim is going to be thinner. The change in gap SHOULD be the same as the difference in the thickness of the shims...... there is a chance that the shims you remove have become slightly cupped, so the middle part that hits the head of the valve is thinner than what you can measure. What you thought was XX gap (at the edge of the shim) is potentially less.

When you think you have it right, put it all back together (cams, cam caps) and check your clearances again.
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post #15 of 18 Old 04-23-2017, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
If you can measure 3.13, use that number(it's really somewhere between 3.12, and 3.14). Don't do any averaging on that. But don't think it's 3.1325678. You are going to end up with 'stacking tolerance'..... the parts will not measure exactly what you expect when you are done. -- odds are very good you will have to pull the cams twice to get the values you want.

If your feeler gauges give you something that falls inside the specified range, you should run with the gauge that is closest to the middle of the tolerance. That's your target. When you measure the shim that was in place that got you to XX gap, and you intend to replace that one with another shim to increase the gap to YY -- obviously the new shim is going to be thinner. The change in gap SHOULD be the same as the difference in the thickness of the shims...... there is a chance that the shims you remove have become slightly cupped, so the middle part that hits the head of the valve is thinner than what you can measure. What you thought was XX gap (at the edge of the shim) is potentially less.

When you think you have it right, put it all back together (cams, cam caps) and check your clearances again.

Thanks again for all the info. This is really help for someone doing this the first time.

I have one other question:

If shims come in 0.05 increments, how do I know which shim I need to order?

According to my measurements I need the following:



EX 1: 2.895 | 2.935 ROUNDED: 2.90 | 2.95
EX 2: 2.895 | 2.895 ROUNDED: 2.90 | 2.90
EX 3: 2.905 | 2.915 ROUNDED: 2.90 | 2.90
EX 4: 2.885 | 2.875 ROUNDED: 2.90 | 2.90


IN 1: WITHIN SPEC
IN 2: 3.12 | 3.12 ROUNDED: 3.10 | 3.10
IN 3: 3.09 | 3.06 ROUNDED: 3.10 | 3.05
IN 4: WITHIN SPEC


Is my rounding more-or-less correct? I'm planning on ordering individual Kawasaki shims, but also wondering if the HOT CAMS kits are any good.

Thanks!
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