Roll off: True Newbies Read - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 29 Old 11-09-2012, 07:10 AM
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Just have to say wow. U wrote this while drunk haha. Great stuff and taught me some stuff

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post #17 of 29 Old 11-09-2012, 07:29 AM
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I agree with that other person who said they only chop the throttle when in mid turn and they see a patch of dirt, I'm the same way, I tend to chop the hell out of the throttle when i am not turning though, like if i'm just riding in a straight line.
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post #18 of 29 Old 11-10-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venge View Post
It's tough because it's a relatively precise movement that comes in most handy in panic situations. I like MoM's description,



because, though I'm not as experienced, this is what I'm striving for and starting to feel. Once you get used to it, you'll naturally treat the throttle as the analog input it is (as opposed to the morse-code On-OFF) at all times, and the roll-on/roll-off will be replaced by smooth, semiconscious modulation. Once you hit this point, I dare say you'll be better off than most riders.
This is partly why it is so imperative that riders be relaxed on the bars when they ride. If you're bearing down with all of your weight on that right clip-on then it takes longer for your brain to convert the cognition to action because you first have to tell your hand to relax. OR youre just working against your own weight to delicately open the throttle.

When I was new to riding I used to practice while riding up and down the freeway to work. I would start by holding the throttle at a consistent, specific speed, then I would crack it by mere milimeters and interpret the feel of the transfer until I could understand exactly how and when the bike registers the input.

Also; what you'll find is that some bikes require more or less finesse when working the throttle-brake combo. This can be due to a number of reasons - power configurations (amount of cylinders, bottom end/top end power, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, displacement, etc.); or mechanical logistics, modifications, etc.

When I rode my buddy's 848 for a few months, I really had to get to know THAT bike because the throttle response was much different than that on any of my bikes. Add to it the fact that it was re-geared and modified and it changed even more.

On some bikes a dip, or delay, in a certain RPM range is pretty typical (a design quirk if you will) but in cases like that it can effect the input that you give even if you do it flawlessly. On my 636 (streetbike) there is a lot of wear and tear that has led to delays in throttle response, and some inconsistent power that could be indicative of crap in the system, or a faulty mechanism or sensor. If I hadn't taken it on the ride the other day, I probably wouldn't have noticed. So now I get to start addressing that when I do the rest of her winter restoration.

It's important to know where your bike's quirks are as well. In fact, becoming more proficient in the principles of throttle control can actually make you more privy to mechanical problems that the bike may have as well. If, for instance you know that you are rolling on smoothly, but you feel subtle reactions where once there weren't any, then you might be headed for other issues down the road.

Understanding the relevance and application of all of it will, indeed, make you a better rider than those folks who just fly by the seat of their pants. When you look at the operation of a motorcycle (sportbikes particularly) as a craft, then you will stand to gain a lot more out of it than the guy who just gets on, winds it up, and throws it into some corners because there is SO much to understand about them.

You may even stand to live longer as well.
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post #19 of 29 Old 11-15-2012, 09:01 PM
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I thought this is what they taught in basic riders course when you do the accident avoidance? I think the only time they didn't say be smooth off when you had to do the sudden stop within a small area. Really good shit that you put this I'm still what I consider a novice but I figured everyone did this maybe I'm weird....unless you wanna endo maybe?

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post #20 of 29 Old 11-16-2012, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpop8807 View Post
I thought this is what they taught in basic riders course when you do the accident avoidance? I think the only time they didn't say be smooth off when you had to do the sudden stop within a small area. Really good shit that you put this I'm still what I consider a novice but I figured everyone did this maybe I'm weird....unless you wanna endo maybe?
I think you're right. Neverthless, I figured that many people don't do BRC. Also, it's good to mindfully practice specifically this because people have a tendency to forget minutiae in panic situations. I'm not an expert by any means but the fact that I'd been practicing this recently might (who knows?) have saved my butt from a highside and many dollars in my recent slide.
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post #21 of 29 Old 04-12-2013, 03:18 PM
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Sadly I wadded my 99 r1 by chopping the throttle mid turn full lean 70ish.transferred all the weight and whammo pavement. I knew how to roll off the throttle but panicked at the sight of a garbage bag in the line. This is a good read.thanks.
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post #22 of 29 Old 04-12-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by trackdayhero View Post
There is a saying I always hear from the really fast guys: "Smooth is fast".
So true. And subtle inputs works for me.
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post #23 of 29 Old 03-13-2014, 10:05 PM
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Great post, Venge. This is really helpful, and now I have something to practice tomorrow. Any other beginner tips?
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post #24 of 29 Old 04-29-2014, 10:55 PM
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Excellent tip

Awesome post Venge. I really needed this advice I have that exact issue and now I can't wait to go ride and use my new knowledge. I love this site and all of you who post here.

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post #25 of 29 Old 04-29-2014, 11:52 PM
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Quick is slow and slow is quick!

Great write up, we just need to keep our physics class in mind when riding. Sudden forces applied can easily break the friction coefficient. But a steady increasing force over a longer period of time results in more force needed to break the friction. That's why you have to try super hard all at once to open a stuck jar vs slowly trying harder and harder.

I really enjoy what this forum has to offer, I've progressed much faster in my riding here than I would have done by my self in the streets. Nice and easy...
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post #26 of 29 Old 04-30-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctuary View Post
The old Keith Code mantra - once the throttle is cracked open it must be held steady or opened. I try to stick to that. But yeah, sand - um, steady state and ride through it IMHO.
Twist of the Wrist II advice. Good stuff. But Code does go on to say that if you absolutely have to, roll back the throttle instead of snapping it back.

I need to practice smooth roll backs more, honestly.
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post #27 of 29 Old 04-30-2014, 08:38 AM
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Not gonna lie, I chop the throttle mid corner anytime I see a hazard. Usually sand. I think the difference is that I know what happens when I chop the throttle so I'm countering those actions at the same time.

I honestly can't think of another good way to react to sand mid corner. Mind you, this is before getting in the sand. If I notice it to late then I stay on the throttle and try to stay as relaxed as possible.
In totw2 code says something like "while you must not be aggressive with the throttle you must not chop it either" I will note time stamps when I get home.
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Last edited by Ey3l45h; 04-30-2014 at 08:42 AM.
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post #28 of 29 Old 04-30-2014, 12:10 PM
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I like how mom put it as "counter intuitive"...sometimes when I doing the more spirited riding I feel as if I'm "dirty dancing" with my hands...I feel like my brain could never keep up with my hands when I'm gettin down with her. I don't ride her, I dance with her.
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post #29 of 29 Old 04-30-2014, 12:13 PM
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^^^. + feet, knees, my whole body really....we do the lambada (that's the forbidden dance)
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