No more Cbr600 - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Derrick0580 View Post
Can you blame honda? They have always been the slowest bike in any category they produce a bike for! When you put the top 4 (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, & Yamaha) in comparison of each other Honda just can't compete in sales or on the track.
That is a very bold statement.

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Moto gp doesn't count but if you did...well marquez and pedrosa on honda

I would say out of the box it may not be the most current but don't say on the track.
Platform is great but there definitely could be some changes to the stock motor (but never will be now). If the honda came with the same hp as the 636 or r6 nobody would be bashing honda as much.

I now ride a 600rr but looks like i will be going back to kawi in the next few years.

I would put the Suzuki below Honda in 2015 vs 2015 models
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post #17 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 12:01 PM
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I'm an old Honda guy, owned more Hondas than I'd care to say, and I loved all of them... certainly some more than others. My top four being (in order): CBR 1000RR; VFR750F; VF500F; CBR 900RR. Honda's racing heritage are V4s. I might think if they really are gonna let the CBR 600RR die off, they just might have a Daytona 675, and a Ducati 959 killer in the works. This way the racing technologies become directly transferrable.

Honda is first & foremost a technology company, they love nothing better than to flaunt their superiority in this area. Look at the RC30, DC RC45, and the holy grail in the guise of the NR 750 oval piston V4 (really a V8), and even the gear driven cam VFRs. Their GP250s, GP500, and their four-strlke MotoGP motors have all been V4 or V5 configurations.

Honda tried unsuccessfully to keep a V4 in their lineup in one form or another. It was unsuccessful because they lost the plot: the ST Sport tour has a cult following; their VFR1200 again, was stillborn. the VFR800 lost their way when they went with VTEC & no longer kept the gear driven cams. Perhaps Honda will return to their heritage. Maybe not. If their do you can bet it will be a butt kicker, and it will be expensive.
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post #18 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sad Panda View Post
I doubt they will stop making it just because they can no longer sell it in Europe though.
They only sold 150 units in 2015 in Europe.

Hardly a reason to stop production for other markets. I doubt we'll see a new 600 from Honda until at least 2018 if at all. Kawasaki on the other hand has stated they'll be making a middle weight bike for a long time to come. (probably because they have had the best selling bike in the class for damn near 4 years).


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post #19 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 03:24 PM
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Had the 600RR before the 636. More tame and a bit softer riding than the Kawi but an all around good bike. Did 28k miles and maybe 7 track days on it. They just haven't updated it with even a slipper or a gear indicator. They could if they wanted to I guess they just don't want to.
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post #20 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 03:48 PM
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If the pegs didn't get in the way of me putting my feet down easily (29" inseam) I would have strongly considered an ABS model. I geek about the C-ABS system anytime I read about it.
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post #21 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by commiehunter View Post
The article quoted REALLY makes it look like the 'CBR600RR is dead' line is for EU only. Note the news site is EU based, and the 2nd paragraph specifically states, 'No word from Honda about the future of the CBR600RR, but our source confirms there's no European replacement for this model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/june/honda-cbr600rr-killed-off/;
The supersport 600 class is further hampered by the development costs of engineering. A new bike for the 600cc class is almost the same cost as that for a 1000cc bike. The levels of engineering complexity are the same, the packaging issues are equally challenging, consumer demands for the latest electronics are the same but thereís no appetite for paying more and therefore the profit margins for manufacturers is tiny.

MCNís Japanese source told us: ďItís not been an easy decision to make for some at Honda because the CBR600 is a bike that has had a great deal of importance to the company over the years but the fact is this model isnít selling in the numbers needed to make it viable for another model to be developed.

ďThe work needed to get this bike through Euro4 is expensive and there is a lot of detail work to be done to make the bike legal. In order to keep the character of the CBR600RR intact and keep it legal requires a lot more work than it first appears. This work adds weight, complexity and cost. The weight would then need to be removed from somewhere else and then the bike gets more expensive still.Ē

The way Honda finances new bike development may have played a part in the demise of the CBR600RR too. Unlike some companies that operate a global bike development policy, Honda asks each region to pay a share of each bike to be engineered and built. In this way Honda Europe and other regions that need Euro4 compliant bikes to sell may have looked at the numbers being sold and just refused to pay up as they knew full well they would never get the investment back. For the opposite reason, the large potential market in the USA may well have refused to pay for all of the work needed for Euro4 because itís not relevant to the US market at all. Why pay for work to make a bike legal when you donít have to?

Honda arenít giving up on sportsbikes; thereís a new CBR1000RR Fireblade coming for 2017 but the 600cc category has suffered a massive drop in sales since the heyday of that class in the late 1990s early 2000s. The current big-selling CBR650F will continue to offer a mid-capacity choice for those wanting a fun, sporty road bike ó much like the original CBR600F was when it was first launched in 1987, and before it became the track missile aimed at racing success in 2003.

The supersport 600 category has been responsible for its own demise in some ways. Racing demanded the road bike to be more extreme, but fewer and fewer road riders wanted a bike that was so track focused, and because the sales are low thereís no incentive for the manufacturers to spend money developing new ones ó which gives buyers no incentive to upgrade. And so the cycle continues.
So it seems that there won't be a new CBR600, anywhere.
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post #22 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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exactly why i started the thread, it sounds like its RIP 600, but the 1000 is still a go
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post #23 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MrZ View Post
So it seems that there won't be a new CBR600, anywhere.
What is funny is that statement of "600's lacking sales" and comparing to liter bikes... I laughed.

I sold bikes for 4 years. I can count on two hands the number of liter bikes I sold. 600's I couldn't even begin to tell you a round about figure. They outsold liter bikes 15 to 1 at least. And I sold maybe two CBR 600's in that time. If they'd have been working on a new 600 over the last few years they'd be ahead of the curve with the Euro4 regulations. Car companies do it all the time. Audi has been building cars to EU4 specs since the late 2000's. They knew it was coming and now they don't have to change anything because they've been doing it for 7 years of more knowing it was going to take affect around now.

Motorcycle in general have gotten so expensive that those that can afford a new 1000 are often times seasoned riders with good jobs and income. But I've sold 600's to people that could barely afford it.

Just an observation And of course... this is a completely different market than Europe.


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Last edited by PowerGroove; 06-29-2016 at 05:16 PM.
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post #24 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CKwik240 View Post
If the pegs didn't get in the way of me putting my feet down easily (29" inseam) I would have strongly considered an ABS model. I geek about the C-ABS system anytime I read about it.
I had the c-abs on mine. Worked well but so does the Kawi abs at much less weight for the abs unit on the Kawi. Also Kawi bleeds like a non abs bike. Honda abs had quite a procedure to bleed. Also I would rather not have the brakes linked. Also the Honda abs sometimes had weird lever travel especially on back to back low speed stops. Like being the second vehicle at a stop sign. Little brake lever travel at the first stop. Then vehicle before you goes and you ride up to the stop sign grab brake lever and travel would be long.

Still a good bike and hate to see big red abandon the class
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post #25 of 39 Old 06-29-2016, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GEB View Post
I had the c-abs on mine. Worked well but so does the Kawi abs at much less weight for the abs unit on the Kawi. Also Kawi bleeds like a non abs bike. Honda abs had quite a procedure to bleed. Also I would rather not have the brakes linked. Also the Honda abs sometimes had weird lever travel especially on back to back low speed stops. Like being the second vehicle at a stop sign. Little brake lever travel at the first stop. Then vehicle before you goes and you ride up to the stop sign grab brake lever and travel would be long.

Still a good bike and hate to see big red abandon the class
I get that it wasn't perfect. But the concept is a pretty big step over anything else out there at the time. Especially from a safety standpoint. The combined braking is actually what makes that system so much safer. You could completely ignore the hand brake or the foot brake and it can still activate full ABS stop on both wheels. Plus since its essentially brake by wire, no ABS pulsation. They've got some bugs to work out, but as I said, I geek out about it.
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post #26 of 39 Old 06-30-2016, 07:11 AM
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^^they did "pioneer" it on sportbikes. too bad they didn't take it to the next level, nor the bike either.

the cbr1000rr abs was error prone (from what I hear), and for some reason in the US you can't get the SP with ABS.
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post #27 of 39 Old 06-30-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerGroove View Post
What is funny is that statement of "600's lacking sales" and comparing to liter bikes... I laughed.

I sold bikes for 4 years. I can count on two hands the number of liter bikes I sold. 600's I couldn't even begin to tell you a round about figure. They outsold liter bikes 15 to 1 at least. And I sold maybe two CBR 600's in that time. If they'd have been working on a new 600 over the last few years they'd be ahead of the curve with the Euro4 regulations. Car companies do it all the time. Audi has been building cars to EU4 specs since the late 2000's. They knew it was coming and now they don't have to change anything because they've been doing it for 7 years of more knowing it was going to take affect around now.

Motorcycle in general have gotten so expensive that those that can afford a new 1000 are often times seasoned riders with good jobs and income. But I've sold 600's to people that could barely afford it.

Just an observation And of course... this is a completely different market than Europe.
As you said, completely different market.
I discussed the "end of cbr600" with some of my friends and the answers i got were....
-"I don't see the reason why anyone would buy a 600 anyway"!!!
-"it's a miracle they are still being made"
-"Why buy a 600 when you can get a liter bike 1 or 2 years older with the same budget?" (used)

This applies to Greece, where trackdays are only for those that can afford them.Where the few tracks are either too far and expensive, either in shitty condition (tarmac and safety).
When you tell someone that you ride a 600, they act like you have a 125cc or something.
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post #28 of 39 Old 06-30-2016, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MrZ View Post
When you tell someone that you ride a 600, they act like you have a 125cc or something.
those are the guys I like giving the to as I pass them on the outside.
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post #29 of 39 Old 02-12-2017, 09:51 PM
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Holy Thread Revival, batman!

So, the 600 CBR will pass from the land, and Triumph has said it will discontinue the Daytona 675R, which i regard as the best of the 600 class bikes. Yikes. I guess I can thank Europe for their Euro4 emission standards, and ridiculous nanny-state age restrictive laws for dealing a death-blow to 600 class sport bikes?

For reference:
What?s next for the class of 600cc racers now they have been discontinued? - MotorbikeTrader.co.uk
http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/...0cc-supersport

Do they mean just the faring (sp?) bikes that we all know and love? As, I can't imagine Triumph discontinuing the Street Triple (a fab hooligan bike) or Ducati abandoning the Monster line. I wonder what types of bikes I'll be riding a few years from now? Surely the market will always have something for those of us who like some adrenaline on light and fast bikes?

EDIT - John McGuinness and Guy Martin are sponsored by Honda for the TT on the new "Fireblades" ... kinda weird if in fact the manufacturers want the 600 class as a whole to die off. And fwiw ... I don't see a lot of people on litre class sport bikes around here so I can't believe they sell enough to justify themselves, when the 600's which sell like hot cakes are planned for discontinuation. If anything I"d think they'd dump the 1000 class.
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post #30 of 39 Old 02-13-2017, 01:29 AM
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Just a guess as to what Euro 4 compliance means, for motorcycle development... my presumption is that you can't meet the emissions limits with small pistons. I would expect to see engines with less cylinders and larger pistons, probably at lower compression as a result of this.

That means stronger cases, bigger bearings, more weight.

I think a new design 600 with performance from the 1980's would be suicide for the mfg.

They will go the way two strokes did

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