Are all new things bad? - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 11:02 AM
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Fuck yeah! Or a ninja 300 like bike that weighs around 300 lbs and puts out about 100 hp. That'd be pretty awesome too.
Totally. Sounds like a recipe for fun...

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Yeah I would too. I want to see what that much torque feels like lol
Especially as the torque is there from 0rpm on...scary shiz!
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A play on words, or words on play
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Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
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post #17 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 11:48 AM
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There was a time when the idea of bringing back two strokes for the street was possible.... a company down under developed a system that would super atomize the charge to be injected into a 2 stroke, that all happened after the exhaust port closed so it was no more 'dirty' than a 4 stroke motor.....

I would have loved to ride an RZ350, missed that one by a few years. sub 400 lbs, with more power than a 600cc four? How could that not be a blast?

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #18 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 11:57 AM
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This guy? Is This Bloke the Next John Britten? ? New Zealand Autocar Magazine | Iffi Technologies
Denver Lawson - the Kiwi who is cleaning up the two-stroke | Stuff.co.nz

I remember there was also a company down here that had developed a two-stroke that used a split cycle which would have produced fewer emissions and amazing power. I just can't find it now. They put the plans on the internet for everyone to see but nobody has used it yet.

A play on words, or words on play
Last chapter, verse in the final act
Words well scripted, each sentence choking
Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
As you eat another's words
Malnourished, you starve.
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post #19 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 12:09 PM
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Found it...2 stroke reliability solved! http://www.pivotalengine.com/design.html

http://www.pivotalengine.com/solutions.html

Animation: http://www.pivotalengine.com/flashversion.html

A play on words, or words on play
Last chapter, verse in the final act
Words well scripted, each sentence choking
Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
As you eat another's words
Malnourished, you starve.

Last edited by Sanctuary; 01-11-2017 at 12:18 PM.
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post #20 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 12:56 PM
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I thought the name of the company was Orbital, but I haven't tried to find anything on it in a long, long time. I understood the US auto industry bought the patents and sat on it. Should have run out of it's legal claim, by now..... the thing was it should have allowed for equal power with almost half the weight/mass for any given displacement due to firing on every stroke.

Wankels fire twice on every revolution, so the power density is even higher.....

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #21 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 12:57 PM
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Wankels fire twice on every revolution, so the power density is even higher.....
Yeah, but who'd want to be caught having a Wankel?

A play on words, or words on play
Last chapter, verse in the final act
Words well scripted, each sentence choking
Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
As you eat another's words
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post #22 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 02:10 PM
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Meh, if you like tweed...fill your boots. I'm just hoping the new Street Triple lives up to my expectations.

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post #23 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 02:20 PM
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Yeah, I watched that live (well, when Triumph finally fixed their fucking site). I have an RS on order with an Arrow pipe. Hence my "hope"

A play on words, or words on play
Last chapter, verse in the final act
Words well scripted, each sentence choking
Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
As you eat another's words
Malnourished, you starve.
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post #24 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 04:04 PM
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Great question that I don't know if I could ever answer. I am too much of a pragmatist about bike purchases to ever own a Ducati. Also, it is always form to suite the function. Obviously the newer Duc's perform better now and are more reliable than in the past due to new technology available today. That is expected That does not mean that it could not be simpler and better. I grew up loving Japanese work because of their respect for simplicity and performance. Ducati and BMW have always represented "other" and been priced beyond what I would be willing to pay and go to the hassle to have to find parts and get serviced. Perhaps if money was just a small issue with my bike budget I would have a few Ducatti in the stable but only if I could afford to have them serviced.

Keep it light and positive look at the boobs as always being at least half full.
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post #25 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 05:40 PM
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Great question that I don't know if I could ever answer. I am too much of a pragmatist about bike purchases to ever own a Ducati. Also, it is always form to suite the function. Obviously the newer Duc's perform better now and are more reliable than in the past due to new technology available today. That is expected That does not mean that it could not be simpler and better. I grew up loving Japanese work because of their respect for simplicity and performance. Ducati and BMW have always represented "other" and been priced beyond what I would be willing to pay and go to the hassle to have to find parts and get serviced. Perhaps if money was just a small issue with my bike budget I would have a few Ducatti in the stable but only if I could afford to have them serviced.
FWIW, my 1198 (which was also the only bike I've bought brand new and the one I've owned the longest out of my 5 bikes currently and previously owned) was the easiest one to work on. The ZX6R is not bad, the the 1198 was the easiest. I also had barely any knowledge of bikes at the time and that was pretty much the bike that I've learned a lot of the common stuff that I do now on all bikes, which is pretty much everything except tearing apart the engine and shock service, since that requires some special tooling. My little CBR500 which is supposed to be a "beginner bike" more or less, is a PITA to work on. I've had nothing but frustrating experiences while doing any work on it, compared to the ZX6R or especially my old 1198. So I kinda disagree about the japanese "simplicity".

As far as parts, yeah the OEM stuff is insanely expensive, but everything else is about the same unless you buy the aftermarket Ducati-branded stuff but Ohlins shocks for example cost you the same regardless of what bike it goes on. Used OEM parts can be even cheaper in a lot of cases. I've bought a gas tank for that bike in mint condition for $120 shipped. A swing arm also in great condition for $80. I sold my frame with clean title and no damage for $1000. I have yet to see those kind of prices for R6's or ZX6R's or GSXR's on the WERA forum or other popular bike forums. And those weren't just me getting the deal of the century. I had seen others that were similarly priced. The only thing that tends to go for more is the engine...but there's also a big difference in what you're getting so it makes sense. I sold my engine for $2500 with 6000 miles only. People are asking more than that for R1 or ZX10R engines. Not to mention the BMW or Aprilias...those guys are asking like $4000+ for an engine. Service as well....before I got rid of my Ducati, the local Ducati dealer was charging $95/hour for labor. The local Kawasaki/Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Polaris dealer was charging $125/hour. Not sure what they are now but I'm pretty sure the Ducati one is still cheaper.

My experience told me that the debate about the cost is more a myth that people like to exaggerate, usually those that haven't experienced it first hand. Sure the upfront cost is a bit more expensive. A 1299 is more expensive than the japanese bikes in that same class, but not by a huge amount. About 15-20% as far as msrp. Sure it's significant, but not like Ferrari vs a Honda Civic. Basically anyone that could afford to buy a japanese liter bike could likely afford to buy a Ducati as well. The main reason why the Japanese ones are cheaper is because their mainstream...simple case of supply and demand. Honda, Yamaha, etc. are pushing out at least 10 times more bikes out of their factories than Ducati does every year. Anything that you manufacture, no matter what the product is, if you're making and selling 10 times more than your competitor you can afford to sell for less.

Give it a try sometime. I bet you'll like them ...I was hooked on it when I went to a dealer to test-ride a used 2009 R1 and a 2009 1198. The guy at the dealer said "start with the R1. then come back and jump on the 1198 and see what you think". He didn't disappoint!

2007 ZZR600 (sold)
2006 CBR600 (sold)
2010 1198 (parted out across North America)
2013 CBR500R (race bike)
2009 ZX6R (race bike)
2015 R3 (project bike and future race bike)

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post #26 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 06:02 PM
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Yeah, I watched that live (well, when Triumph finally fixed their fucking site). I have an RS on order with an Arrow pipe. Hence my "hope"
Very nice..

Wish you were closer.. A track day on it looks fun.
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post #27 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 06:30 PM
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Very nice..

Wish you were closer.. A track day on it looks fun.
I'm a little worried mate. I really hope it doesn't give my ZX6R a run for its money. I'm kind of hoping it's a great Street machine and that's it. That being said, I know the current bike struggles over 200km/hr due to the aerodynamics and I doubt this thing will be any different. So probably not as amazing on the straights of my primary track as the ZX6R...

A play on words, or words on play
Last chapter, verse in the final act
Words well scripted, each sentence choking
Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
As you eat another's words
Malnourished, you starve.
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post #28 of 28 Old 01-11-2017, 06:33 PM
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Have a mate with a Pannigale 1199. Service intervals seem pretty good (i.e. long). But I know the Ducati dealership charges a pretty penny here per hour...

A play on words, or words on play
Last chapter, verse in the final act
Words well scripted, each sentence choking
Inaudible gag, blanket which suffocates
As you eat another's words
Malnourished, you starve.
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