Sub 400 lbs.... - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Sub 400 lbs....

100+ HP, on a bike that weighs 400+ lbs, is about where the 'fun' factor lies for me. It's the acceleration, but also the handling. There's always talk about superchargers, etc to increase the HP to weight....... far better to lower the weight and maintain the HP.

I would be far more interested in a turbocharged 450 twin or single, at 300 lbs and 85 -100 HP.

Two stroke sorts of numbers......just sayin.....
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"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #2 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
100+ HP, on a bike that weighs 400+ lbs, is about where the 'fun' factor lies for me. It's the acceleration, but also the handling. There's always talk about superchargers, etc to increase the HP to weight....... far better to lower the weight and maintain the HP.

I would be far more interested in a turbocharged 450 twin or single, at 300 lbs and 85 -100 HP.

Two stroke sorts of numbers......just sayin.....
Oh, God! Yes! So very much this! I've got a soft spot for 250 2T and supermono machines, but even a modern KTM or Honda twin could be wrapped in a lightweight chassis with minimal gimmicks to put out a reliable 80bhp and weigh around the 300 pound mark.

How about a 550cc twin with 70bhp/220lbs?

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The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

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post #3 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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What would it take to add enough stuff to one of those to make it street legal in the US, I wonder?

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #4 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 12:06 PM
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What would it take to add enough stuff to one of those to make it street legal in the US, I wonder?
Does it not vary by state?

In the UK, you don't need indicators or mirrors. The only requirements that I can recall (provided that you only use it on the road during daylight hours) are a horn and a brake light. Let's call that 5 lbs including wiring and button.
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The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 12:22 PM
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2001 Honda NSR500
499cc 2-stroke V4
200hp/13,500rpm
Dry Weight: 288.2 lb
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post #6 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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^^^probably less than 20 MPG, but it would be phenomenal.....

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #7 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 02:04 PM
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Honda NSR250R

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post #8 of 16 Old 04-22-2017, 03:06 PM
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2001 Honda NSR500
499cc 2-stroke V4
200hp/13,500rpm
Dry Weight: 288.2 lb
The only fly in the ointment being a need to completely rebuild the engine every 1000 miles or so.

... and to find an ex-HRC mechanic with knowledge.
... and ten billion octane fuel
... and dealing with an engine that bloody well four-strokes at under 5000 RPM

Bah. It'd still be worth it just to blast away from the lights in a blue cloud and dozens of onlookers wondering what in the hell that was.

Oh, I nearly forgot. I'd want to factor in money for a respray to Mick Doohan's Repsol livery.
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The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Honda NSR250R
I was thinking RZ350

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #10 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 01:20 AM
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Honda NSR250R
This one is pretty light, I bet the dry weight is probably around close to 200 lbs.

Tyga Performance NSR300R

300cc Big Bore kit
75hp @ rear wheel
Wet weight: 253 lb

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post #11 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 03:45 AM
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Or how about a GP45 machine?

GP45.co.uk - the exciting next generation of pure race-bred motorcycles

265lbs and fully road legal (in the UK)

This is all based on the kit from here:

Bikes - 450GP.com

There isn't currently a US distributor, but I'm sure some enterprising soul on your sunny shores would be willing to give it a shot.
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The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #12 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Does it not vary by state?

In the UK, you don't need indicators or mirrors. The only requirements that I can recall (provided that you only use it on the road during daylight hours) are a horn and a brake light. Let's call that 5 lbs including wiring and button.
The biggest thing for a production motorcycle in the US is the EPA laws, followed by the DOT. There are requirements for how long the engine has to meet emissions requirements, in terms of operating hours. I really like the idea of the 450 dirt bike based racers..... seems like that would be the least painful transition, as they are at least in general relatively high volume production.

But as far as I know they have not been certified to meet emissions over the long haul.

I know in my heart of hearts that a small bore, very high strung bike would be a hoot on the street. For the US the perception is that the cost of that bike would be so high as to make it a non starter.

If someone were to enter the US market with a sub 600cc bike that weighed less than 300 lbs, with the same acceleration and handling as a current gen 600..... it would still not sell well, particularly if the price was anywhere near what the current cost of a 600 is.

Due to the realities of the legal environment here, no mfg is going to advertise how well their bike accelerates, or corners..... stripped of any way to tell the public why this is the route to go to have a performance bike -- not only does it handle better, but it gets better MPG, and is easier on tires and brakes, not to mention the services on a single or twin are less than on a multi cylinder motor..... but it costs as much or more than the bikes it's replacing..... dead in the water.

Unless someone goes the pirate route, and the mfgs take notice.

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #13 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 08:37 AM
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You can import the bikes for race use only though I am pretty sure.

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post #14 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 11:00 AM
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I wouldn't gave thought emissions would be a huge obstacle. These engines would already have met homologation for emissions regulations.

I'll admit, the cost of bikes like the GP45 kits do incur not insignificant cost, but considering the specification of some of the hardware, it's far from exorbitant. Perhaps the greatest difficulty is as RJ pointed out along with the fact that manufacturers need to tread a careful line between proclaiming one model to be the ultimate in motorcycling, and ensuring acceptance and adequate sales of the other machines in their range. Even something like a stripped down Ninja 650 can embarrass much larger machines on the right roads combined with some talent and experience.

In honesty, I'd love to have a litre bike and trick it out as an endurance machine. I have plans for such in a lottery dream sheet. But I also have plans for a 80-100 BHP machine of minimal mass. The Supertwins series gives me inspiration along these lines, as does my past in racing supermono machinery. This would solely be for the track, but I have plenty of experience of riding a lightweight single and shaming much higher output bikes everywhere but on long straights.

Why choose to ride something that gets left behind in the power stakes? Because it's damn good fun making someone who believes that the quest for massive power is the only way to be fast, realise just how wrong they can be. Isn't fun one of the biggest motivations for us to take to riding two wheels in the first place?

-------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.

Last edited by Twistee; 04-23-2017 at 11:02 AM.
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post #15 of 16 Old 04-23-2017, 05:54 PM
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Go on a diet. Some of the fat lards that race, I think they'd be amazing if they just cut back on the drink and pies.

But yeah, I'd love to see a light-weight bike with a 400cc motor that screams. Maybe not a two-smoker though.

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