2001 J ZX6R "misfire" - ZX6R Forum
 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
2001 J ZX6R "misfire"

Hi,

Another newbie here, a couple of months back I picked up my first ZX6R J 2001, ever since I've been trying to get to the bottom of a "misfire".

Long story short, the bike near enough runs fine, the only issue is a "misfire" when pulling away below 4K rpm, was like this when I bought it but hadn't noticed on the test ride. I immediately changed the plugs assuming they were shot, they looked decent enough but I thought I'd change anyway, clean the filter (k&n) and put back together, worked fine for about 200 miles until the "misfire" reappeared.

Having basic DIY mechanic knowledge I decided I'd try a garage next, they replaced the plugs also, told me the valve clearances were fine, sync'd the carbs and cleaned, cleaned the needles too. The same as above has happened.

Plugs seem to cure it but something must be killing the plugs? I have searched through the forums but can't find a similar situation. Would I be right in saying the coil packs are the next culprit? Any other suggestions to look at while I'm checking them? I would assume this to be a spark issue, the plugs weren't "soaked" in fuel, sooty or white, what else could kill them??

Any help is appreciated.
Seaniboi69 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 07:21 AM
Post Master General
 
RJ2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bowling Green, VA
Posts: 7,345

I Ride: '09 ZX6R
If the plugs are all the same color, and are not wet, I would think the problem is not with the plugs. If the cylinders are all firing equally, and you just have a random point in time where you 'lose' all of them, that's most likely electrical.

Your description does not give enough detail to narrow it down.

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
RJ2112 is online now  
post #3 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
Thanks for the response. Sorry if I haven't given a lot of detail, didn't want to over explain the issue.

Bike is a 2001, 16,000 miles on the clock, K&N filter and a Micron sports exhaust.
The issue I can only explain like a misfire doesn't feel like it drops on all plugs, when setting off or crawling along under 4k rpm (which is usually only when in 1st or 2nd gear) the revs drop for a split second before picking back up as though it intermittently misses, above 4k rpm it runs fine. As you can imagine, on a bike this doesn't feel great negotiating slow corners etc as it feels like it's starting to pull, then drops then pulls again and so on until you get up above about 4k rpm.

When I changed the plugs about 500 miles ago the issue disappeared completely, revving and setting off smoothly, no intermittent miss at all. About 200 miles later (just a few days) the issue came back. Took to the garage, they cleaned everything as detailed in the first post and put some more plugs in, again it ran fine for a few days before the miss re-appeared.

Obviously the new plugs allow the bike to run fine for a short period then something is causing one to fail - right? I intend to pull them all and check them to see if I can identify the culprit but what could cause the plug failure if that makes sense? Assuming something is causing a plug to fail and it's not something else all together but given that new plugs cure it(until it fails again) it has to be that the plugs are failing.

Just looking for any suggestions while the tank is off.

Thanks again
Seaniboi69 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 12:54 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
scoot33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: near bristol ,uk
Posts: 1,234

I Ride: zx6 j2
seaniboi69,might be worth trying coil packs,not sure how much they are new but if pricey maybe some from ebay,does it do it when engine is hot or when cold ,is it always or intermittent

zx6r j2 mods done ,,
+4 ignition advancer ,k&n filter ,factory pro ti jet n needle kit ,14 t front sprocket ,zx6r 04 headers ,r1 2008 de-cat with dual carbon cans ,zx6r 07 clocks ,zx636 a1p clock /screen mount ,shorty titax levers ,r1 2008 rear end and subframe,hel braided lines ,zx6r 06 swingarm,zx6r 06 rear shock,zx6r 06 forks with maxton internals,zx12r 320mm front discs ,r1 06 calipers ,r6 06 m/c
scoot33 is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoot33 View Post
seaniboi69,might be worth trying coil packs,not sure how much they are new but if pricey maybe some from ebay,does it do it when engine is hot or when cold ,is it always or intermittent


Thanks, I'm thinking new coil pack(s) but new they're over £50 a piece, it's expensive to replace all 4 if not required. I'm going to check them all to see if they're corroded or any visible damage and test them with a meter. I'm hoping I find that one is to blame.

Since the fault has reoccurred it's constant, anytime the bike is accelerating below 4K rpm it has this misfire and feels like it stutters getting up past 4K rpm, once above that it pulls absolutely fine. I've a feeling if the plugs were changed yet again it would run smooth again for a couple of hundred miles until the fault developed again so it can only be a spark issue??

I'll check the plugs and packs and see if I can spot anything. If anyone has any other possible suggestions to look at I'd appreciate it. The Haynes manual doesn't give a lot of other suggestions that I think it could be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you've never owned one, you'll never understand!
Seaniboi69 is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 07:07 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
scoot33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: near bristol ,uk
Posts: 1,234

I Ride: zx6 j2
if it clears after 4 k it could be something else ,if it was plug or coil pack realistically it would be all the time misfiring,have you checked the base settings on your carbs the mixture screws ect,carbs and air leaks can cause all sorts of shitty small problems ,how is your mechanical knowledge ,i would have a look to see what mixture screws are set at,the j is set at 3 turns out ,and check to see any dodgy pipe work has fell off or split

zx6r j2 mods done ,,
+4 ignition advancer ,k&n filter ,factory pro ti jet n needle kit ,14 t front sprocket ,zx6r 04 headers ,r1 2008 de-cat with dual carbon cans ,zx6r 07 clocks ,zx636 a1p clock /screen mount ,shorty titax levers ,r1 2008 rear end and subframe,hel braided lines ,zx6r 06 swingarm,zx6r 06 rear shock,zx6r 06 forks with maxton internals,zx12r 320mm front discs ,r1 06 calipers ,r6 06 m/c
scoot33 is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 08:28 PM
Squid
 
Dirtroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 7

I Ride: 1998 Kawasaki ninja zx6r
Garage
Since you are convinced that replacing the plugs temporarily solves the problem, try this:

Replace the plug in number 1 cylinder. Go for a ride to see if it fixed it.
If it fixed it, you have now narrowed it down to cylinder number 1.

If it still has the miss, Replace the plug in number 2 cylinder. Go for a ride to see if it fixed it.
If it fixed it, you have now narrowed it down to cylinder number 2.

If it still has the miss, Replace the plug in number 3 cylinder. Go for a ride to see if it fixed it.
If it fixed it, you have now narrowed it down to cylinder number 3.

If it still has the miss, Replace the plug in number 4 cylinder. Go for a ride to see if it fixed it.
If it fixed it, you have now narrowed it down to cylinder number 4.

If none of this eliminated the miss, you know that spark plugs aren't the problem or solution.
Dirtroad is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 12-09-2016, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
Ill check the mixture settings today, that's one thing I haven't touched to be honest, it doesn't smell like it's running lean/rich nor did the plugs show any signs. The garage have done a vacuum leak check (apparently) with no issues as they said the same but while I've got it open I'll take all the pipes off and give a visual inspection. It's not ideal but I don't have any equipment to test this.
Dirtroad, if none of the above works this might be my solution, I'll get a multimeter on them first then start to replace one by one just to rule it out.

If it's not the plugs/coils and I'm looking at this all wrong it's sounding like it could be a fuel/air mixture issue then. I'll update this evening once I've tried everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you've never owned one, you'll never understand!
Seaniboi69 is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 12-11-2016, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
Right then. Spent yesterday and today checking various things.

Sparks out and they seem to fire fine, nice blue spark, not gunked up etc. Tested the resistance and that's within specification on all plugs, I guess this rules out plugs. Tested the resistance on all the coil packs, same again, within spec, no damage I can see. Tested the resistance in the secondary circuits, again this is fine.

Scoot33 it looks like you were right, electrics all check out so it must be an air/fuel issue.

I screwed in all the mixture screws and wound back out 3 turns (this was very close to how it was before I adjusted, maybe they were 1/8 of a turn different). Took the bike for a spin, still has the random stutter/misfire under 4K rpm. (Reluctant to say misfire now as it seems that it's firing fine).

Should I be altering the mixture screws now? With it having a K&N is it seeing too much air so needs adjusting to more fuel, would I be best to start screwing them out or start screwing them in? Also, any tips to doing this, if I need to adjust a 1/4 turn, try it then maybe adjust another 1/4 etc etc I'm just thinking about not having to remove the tank etc each time as I'll not know if it's made a difference until I test ride it.

Thanks guys!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you've never owned one, you'll never understand!
Seaniboi69 is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 12-11-2016, 01:26 PM
Post Master General
 
RJ2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bowling Green, VA
Posts: 7,345

I Ride: '09 ZX6R
I have to think the electrical side of things aren't a concern.

You may have an air leak, which is causing the fueling to be off. Vacuum leaks can cause the sort of issues you seem to be having. A boot may not be seated properly, one of the vacuum control lines may be cracked, missing, or improperly routed......

Probably the best tool to diagnose at this point would be a vacuum gauge, to see if the manifold pressures are even.

If the bike has had the valves adjusted, the carbs rebuilt, the air filter cleaned, and the carbs synchronized -- it should run very well. If not, then something is still amiss, almost certainly inside the carbs.
Dirtroad likes this.

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
RJ2112 is online now  
post #11 of 20 Old 12-11-2016, 03:23 PM
MotoGP Champion
 
riverszzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 4 months of frozen hell
Posts: 4,657

I Ride: 86,000+ mile '07 ZZR600
pilot fuel jet size?
pilot air jet size?
needle ?
needle jet?
main air jet?
main fuel jet?

are all these stock or have they been changed? If changed, changed to what?

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
riverszzr is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 12-11-2016, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
pilot fuel jet size?

pilot air jet size?

needle ?

needle jet?

main air jet?

main fuel jet?



are all these stock or have they been changed? If changed, changed to what?


I haven't changed any of these, looks like I need to dig a little deeper as the previous owner might have.

This might be a daft question but are these sizes marked on the jets and needles in anyway or do I need to get a micrometer on them? Sure the sizes will be in the Haynes for me to compare against


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you've never owned one, you'll never understand!
Seaniboi69 is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 12-12-2016, 08:01 AM
MotoGP Champion
 
riverszzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 4 months of frozen hell
Posts: 4,657

I Ride: 86,000+ mile '07 ZZR600
They are marked on the jets, depending on how clean and how good your eye sight is..... you may need a magnifying glass

Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
riverszzr is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 12-12-2016, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Seaniboi69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 9

I Ride: ZX6R
Spot on. Probably won't get chance to look for a week but I'll let you know the outcome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you've never owned one, you'll never understand!
Seaniboi69 is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 12-12-2016, 09:01 AM
MotoGP Champion
 
riverszzr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 4 months of frozen hell
Posts: 4,657

I Ride: 86,000+ mile '07 ZZR600
Here are a few examples.....the first pic is a ZX6R, (f) model though..........
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IM000274.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	509.2 KB
ID:	51402   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160425_174443.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	729.1 KB
ID:	51410   Click image for larger version

Name:	IM000184.JPG
Views:	12
Size:	265.9 KB
ID:	51418   Click image for larger version

Name:	IM000430.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	219.1 KB
ID:	51426   Click image for larger version

Name:	IM000488.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	237.5 KB
ID:	51434  


Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
riverszzr is offline  
Reply

  ZX6R Forum > Lobby > New Users

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2001 zx6r manual zx6r01 Mechanical and Technical 4 07-24-2013 08:57 AM
Getting 2001 yellow zx6r on Friday Some quick questions. ddavis513 New Users 30 02-13-2011 06:07 AM
2001 zx6r Six Addict Pictures 9 04-07-2009 03:27 PM
Power Commander for 2001 ZX6R? ZX6EDGE Racing 9 03-28-2009 09:57 PM
2001 zx6r need all plastics Sephone420 Classifieds 9 01-01-2009 09:54 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome