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Newish Rider looking for a bigger bike.

6K views 80 replies 28 participants last post by  Sanctuary 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

I go by Vohrtefahrt or Vort for short. I am an eastern PA rider with a Ninja 300 looking for something bigger I am getting my hands on a nin650 to test ride but I was also looking at getting a 636(or Sex3Sex). I have looked at probably 10 different bikes from yamaha to suzuki, back to Kawi. There is just something about the Zx6r(636 specifically) that brings me right back. I decided to join this forum to see if there is an issue with 200+ mile rides comfort wise, IE butt pain, back pain, wrists?. I understand the seating position will be much more aggressive than my little 300 but I am thinking the powerband area is similar(although again much much much more power from the 636). Since the 300 doesn't really start to shine until about 8k RPM whereas the ninja 650 has a low-mid range curve. I have plenty of time to think about getting one (the new '17s look absolutely fantastic). I have had my fair share of new to me but many years on it (quads, dirts bikes, cars, etc). I am probably going to pick up a '15 or newer just because I don't want the unknown of previous riders, and money really isn't an issue at this point in time for me.(I am saving for a house though so that could change in the very near future).

Some background I have only been riding since august(rode until mid november) I have put 1300 miles on my bike. I have passed the Basic riding course and received my full M class license. I have full riding leathers and mid-shin boots.

I hope to give back as much as I receive from this community.

TL:DR New ninja 300 rider. Looking for an upgrade :grin: I has stuffs and things
 

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#3 ·
Welcome Voldemort!:wink

Looks like you have a nice set up. The basic question is, what do plan on doing with the bike? Long distance? Track Days? Just local street riding?

If you like the riding position of your 300 and you're not doing many track days, the Ninja 650 is a good choice. If you want a 4 cylinder that is more street oriented the Honda CBR 650f is a good choice. Seriously consider ABS on your new bike as well.

If you are planning track days and short to medium street trips, there is probably nothing better than 636.


You are close to NJMP, which makes it easy to attend a good riding school.

California SuperBike School | California SuperBike School

https://ridelikeachampion.com/


If you plan to ride a bike at speed, get the training.




It is also good to know there a bunch of people riding at track days on 300's, so you can still learn a ton on your 300.
 
#4 ·
I plan on keeping the 300, I do want to do a track day. My main goal is 150-300 mile rides on weekends up around lake wallenpaupak and other routes in PA that are awesome with the occasional trip down the virginia. My one buddy I ride a lot with is going to let me ride his 650 to see if I like it. The only turn off I have is I hear a lot of complaints about the suspension on the newer models(the type im looking to get) whereas the 636 is superior. I know about using knee's/core to maintain form on the bike and to not lean on your wrists. What considered a short-medium trip? Thanks for the advice on other bikes but every time I go shopping I always always come back to the 636. I do not see myself on a honda CBR. I have ridden honda dirtbikes as a child to young adult from an 80 4stroke to a 250 2 stroke and their engines etc are fantastic. I am a green man through and through though and unless I can walk out with it (without replacing plastics) in a green color its not for me. I have considered the street triple, triumphs, ninja 650, cbr, R6, fz's. Unfortunately i do not have much seat time. Does NJMP have test bikes you can take out on the track after spending so much time(or renting them) at the track until they trust you enough?
 
#11 ·
I went 250R->ZX6R, then bought a 300 to replace the 250R for commuting and finally upgraded the ZX6R to a 636. The ZX6R is not a good bike for long rides. It is track-focused. A 650R is a good bike for touring. Personally, I'd wait for the new Z650 as that seems lighter than the 650R which was way to clunky/heavy for my liking (my Ex and sister had one and they're reliable but just boring). I dumped the 300 in favour of a Street Triple and have never looked back. Fantastic bike, amazing for touring and can tear up the track like a ZX6R. Really is a jack of all trades but if you're a Kawisnob, I can't teach you shit.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Woah settle down there man. No need to get your Street triple panties in a bunch. I just don't like Honda, never said anything about being a Kawisnob,(note..this IS is ZX6R forum soo...) I do like my one buddy's Striple. I am going to be doing a lot of searching etc to see if I can meet up with people who would do a bike swap for a few miles to see what I like/dont like.

I would need to ride a naked bike, I am 5'7 ~148 lbs so any wind is going to push me around. I would need a windscreen if I were to get the z650(it does look sexy though!) I appreciate your advice and you don't have to bash what people like. That is just not a cool thing to do. We are all riders at the end of the day so lets just get along 'kay?
 
#13 ·
Welcome,

I live in Western Pa. I take pretty long rides on mine and don't seem to have an issue. Last time I really had an issue was a ride from Pittsburgh to DC in a bad rain storm on my old R6. Couldn't walk to well after that for the rest of the day.

I prefer the super-sport bikes over the sport. However, I have a buddy who has a Ninja 650 and loves it. That's just no my style. Good luck in your search. Prices are going up as spring is coming fast.
 
#14 ·
I have known those who can ride hundreds of miles on a super sport like the 636 with little or no issues and others who can't go more than 100 miles before they are hurting. For what it is worth I am 56 years old, six foot one and 182 pounds and can do 150 to 200 miles on my 636......but then I am ready to get off.

I also have a Ninja 1000 on which I can ride all day long for hundreds of miles and still attack the twisties with confidence. It is by far my favorite bike of the two. You might be surprised at how much fun you can have on a Ninja 650 and still do some touring in comfort.

My two cents worth.
 
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#18 ·
Twin cylinder designs tend to have a more forgiving power band -- more torque, less top end rush. Twins should be lighter than 4 cylinder designs, due to less mass in the engine. Often this is not true, as the multi cylinder designs get a lot more attention to keep the weight down.

Naked bikes typically do not get the best quality components, as the mfgs would like them to be stepping stones to their more lucrative products.

A 60+ HP sub 400 lb bike is a lot of fun to ride, and can be a lot more forgiving on tires, brakes, and drive train components. Not to mention insurance costs.
 
#22 ·
My first 600 was a Yamaha FZ6 which I rode everywhere and often made day trips of 300 to 450 miles. Move to a CBR600RR which I put riser bars on and a Saddlemen seat and have ridden as many as 600 miles in a day (stopped every couple of hours). Have not taken a real long ride on the ZX6R yet but that's because I crushed part of my kneecap and spent most of last year getting over that. I'm 5 10 and weigh 180 and am over 60 and the knee bend on the ZX6R is actually less than the CBR. IMO the seat is better than the CBR. To me the ZX6R is a really sweet bike that goes well, the extra midrange is nice when loafing around town but when the throttle is twisted it will goes very nicely. When wound up (10,000 to red line) the CBR seems as quick as the ZX6R but does lack the midrange. The ZX6R has traction control (2013 and newer) and ABS is available. I'd recommend ABS for the street because it's a nice backup just in case. I've had mine give one or two "bumps" which lets me know i'm at the limit on braking. Traction control is fun in the wet and is nice when exiting a corner and hitting a slick spot. NOTE ABS models have indication of ABS on the bike, since all models have the speed sensors on the wheels that does not indicate ABS.

Don't know about where you are but in the south there are new 2015 and 2016 ZX6R's available at good prices. May be able to find a 2014 even - got my 2014 in south Georgia a year ago for $8995 OTD but that didn't include local sales taxes.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Insurance was going to be more for me with a 2013 z1000 than it is for my 2011 zx10r haha, so naked bikes aren't always cheaper.

I personally hate riding the zx6r on the street, it is super uncomfortable but for some reason I can ride the zx10r for 100s of miles without being bothered much *shrugs* The 10r gets 36mpg which is neat too! But don't go from a 300 to a 1000 please :eek:

The Street Triple is great but super ugly. It looks like a dead bug.
If you want something comfortable, not ugly as hell, and fun to ride I'd get a Fz09 or GSX-S750.
 
#25 ·
The Street Triple is great but super ugly. It looks like a dead bug.
You know what they say about opinions and assholes.

I prefer the Wall-E look personally, over some random-looking Gixer or Yamamoto.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I didn't get my panties in a bunch, I merely stated if you are determined to get a Kawasaki you will do that...but eh whatever keyboard warrior...continue!

As a newish rider, I'd urge you to put brand preferences aside. Ride things that may even appear ugly and settle on a bike that makes sense to *YOU* (not others).
 
#29 ·
I started with a 2013 Ninja 300. Out grew it fast. I picked up a 2007 Ninja 650 and it was fun and fairly comfortable to ride but after about a year I just felt I wanted something more sporty. So I picked up a 2004 ZX6R and I don't regret it one bit. I sold the 650. I have 0 issues riding the ZX6R for long times/distances. The 650 would hurt my wrist even though it had a more upright posture position. I am completely comfortable on the ZX6R. None of the normal sport bike rider complaints like back/wrist pain. I will be keeping the ZX6R for a long time.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Yea I think im going the same route.. I might buy a new 2017 or find a used 2014-2015 for a few grand off. I really like the changes they made to all the 2017 models so far. Actually its not the same route at all. Im just going to go right for the 636. I know my limits and I will not being doing any stunts (im bad at them anyway)
 
#39 ·
tl;dr

We don't want to see you dead. But we all have fun.

I went out last weekend and passed on a solid yellow. I don't even feel bad about it. Yet I still harp on gear, safety, learning to control your machine, etc.

Most crashes are single-vehicle, meaning the rider lost control or put the machine in a place it couldn't recover from (more likely the rider wouldn't allow the machine to recover).

It sounds like you've got the ability to reason through things, and maybe won't lane-split at 90mph your first week out. Be cool, and work on learning the machine, and hopefully we all live.



Did I miss anything?
 
#42 ·
tl;dr

We don't want to see you dead. But we all have fun.

I went out last weekend and passed on a solid yellow. I don't even feel bad about it. Yet I still harp on gear, safety, learning to control your machine, etc.

Most crashes are single-vehicle, meaning the rider lost control or put the machine in a place it couldn't recover from (more likely the rider wouldn't allow the machine to recover).

It sounds like you've got the ability to reason through things, and maybe won't lane-split at 90mph your first week out. Be cool, and work on learning the machine, and hopefully we all live.


Did I miss anything?
I live in PA so lane splitting is actually ILLEGAL. Only real d-bags and asshats do it here. Granted not much a cop can do if he catches you because well.... he can't fit unless he is on a police cruiser (not too common around the area I live) Only time I even think about passing on a yellow would be some dude going 10-15 under the speed limit. I have had other dudes on bikes pass my group over a double yellow so they can do 80+ down this back road.

Live to ride another day is a Great motto!
 
#43 ·
Welcome! Hopefully you go with the obviously good choice [emoji6]

As for the longer rides. My buddies and I ride our bikes down to the outer banks in North Carolina (4 hour ride) every year. All of us are pretty good the whole ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#46 ·
This may not be the popular opinion, hell I don't completely agree with it myself because I have never ridden a liter bike and feel like they are overkill for the streets:

The ZX10R or any other liter will handle highway miles a lot better than a 600. If you are a fan of aftermarket exhausts imagine how loud and annoying a 600 will be at 8k RPMs doing 75 on the interstate vs. a 1000 at 4K RPMs.

Just something to consider, everyone is different and it is possible you survive swinging a leg over the 1000. I started on a 600 which is a big risk, and I am still here to tell the tale.

Good luck with your decision.
 
#47 · (Edited)
My first bike was the ER6n, which is the naked equivalent of the Ninja 650. I later moved into a Z1000, and while it "only" had 125 HP it had as much torque as 1000cc sport bikes, and peak torque showed up earlier in the revs than a liter sport bike.

I don't ride on the street anymore, and part of the reason I gave it up was from getting too many tickets on the Z1000. It was just way too easy to get up to illegal speeds. In the end, I had more fun on the 650 and if I were to ever get back into street riding again, I would be looking for something in that middleweight twins category again.

The 650 had really good off the line acceleration which made it fun to go from stop light to stop light, but it ran out of revs before I was about to get into speeding ticket territory. Cycle world claims it can do 0 - 60 in 3.5 seconds. Plenty of performance for street riding!
 
#49 ·
Well, I bought a new 300, with the goal of moving up to 636, and man I Moved up and I love it. More than enough power on the street, handling and braking worlds better, and the last thing I notice was the power. The seating pos is not that bad really. I rode my friend Pany and that was much worse than mine. This 636 was built for the daily in mind so its a little less aggressive compared to other bikes in the same class.
Just pull the trigger man.
 
#51 ·
That was exactly my intent. By a small one to learn on and get the basics (and cheaper to fix if I drop it due to clumsiness/beginner mistakes) then after I feel comfortable enough to upgrade to a 600. I will almost def be staying in the 600 range since the bike is not my main mode of transportation and is used for mostly weekend Joy rides. Don't get me wrong I love my 300 (i am actually putting a new tail light/ integrated signal on it within the next week or so). I just wanted to start my ascent to a larger bike. I shall be pulling the trigger within the next year. I am probably going to try to scoop a 2017 next winter when the 18's come out.
 
#50 ·
I think the reality is, if you are going to screw up and crash, it isn't going to happen because you cant handle the power. Yes a 1000 will get you there quicker than a 600 or a 300. If you have a solid head on your shoulders, you can keep it mellow. Most people that I see crashing on a liter bike are the ones that would crash on a 600. They are just fuck ups. The street can be a dangerous place but it usually isn't because the bike has too much power. It has more to do with the riding circumstances and other vehicles(cars) etc.
 
#52 ·
Go dump money on some training and then decide what to do. Seriously take the 300 to a track day and see how fast you are...I wish people would invest as much in training as they do on "upgrades".
 
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#54 ·
So here's my 2 cents.

I literally just did the same thing last week. I sold my 2013 300 for a 2015 new 636. I regret nothing lol.

Yes the bike is alittle more agressive but personally at 5' 10 I don't really have a issue with it. I actually am commuting on it in traffic for about a hour each way (30ish miles) and it handles it extremely well. It feels like the logical step up from the 300 as the weight is nearly the same and it just inspires confidence like the 300 did.

As for the riding highway thing. I run highway 316 here in Ga and I do it at like 5k rpms at 75 in 6th gear. And it still just pulls if you give it some throttle.

I wouldnt buy a ninja 650 personally. I would get the new Z650 or Z900 instead if you want the comfort aspect
 
#55 ·
It feels like the logical step up from the 300 as the weight is nearly the same and it just inspires confidence like the 300 did.


174kg vs 192kg is significant. I know because I have had both. The biggest factor is the weight difference and how over the tank you are on a super-sport. I would not put the 300 in the same class, no way.
 
#56 ·
I commute in a 2012 zx6r everyday. Personally, i don't want to get off the bike once i get to work or back home. Right now, im commuting from Oakland to South San Francisco. But before that, i was riding from Oakland to Palo Alto: maybe under 40 miles away, but in treacherous traffic. I find that lane splitting fatigues you more than not having any traffic. And although ive never been on a 650, i think one would be able to maneuver better and split through traffic in a zx6r. I could be wrong.

It is an aggressive position, but it works for me. Im similar to your size. 5'10" 155.

And i would take Sanctuary's advice openly instead of saying he got offended when he clearly didnt. He was trying to help you. You are new and searching for advice, much like me. Alot of people on this forum know more than youll ever know. Instead of creating a show, just get your advice and be thankful like Marshawn Lynch.
 
#57 ·
I commute in a 2012 zx6r everyday. Personally, i don't want to get off the bike once i get to work or back home. Right now, im commuting from Oakland to South San Francisco. But before that, i was riding from Oakland to Palo Alto: maybe under 40 miles away, but in treacherous traffic. I find that lane splitting fatigues you more than not having any traffic. And although ive never been on a 650, i think one would be able to maneuver better and split through traffic in a zx6r. I could be wrong.
I found the old 650 heavy and slow to steer (my partner at the time had a 650L and my sister an ER6N). The weight is high in the bike too which makes it easy to drop. I'm hoping Kawasaki have fixed that with the new iteration. Looking at the stats, it's definitely lost weight. Again all of this is subjective because whilst one bike may seem great for a certain rider it may not suit another.

Here's a pic of my old pair. Really miss the ZX6R. And ironically I'm looking at another Ninja 300 to do some racing on...





And yes, I have a thing for white bikes...
 

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#58 ·
I started on 600's a 250 or 300 would not have been ideal for my situation. Just respect what you have. The most confortable bike I have ever sat on was a 2015 ZX10R. I could damn near flat foot at factory ride height. Body posistion was awesome. All my riding buds ( our gang ) lol have liter bikes , the thing I can say is with a liter bike you do not have to shift all the time while city riding. That is a huge plus in my book. naked bikes suck unless you have a naked chic waiting at the end of your ride. Lol
 
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