Track suspension/geometry set up - ZX6R Forum
 57Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 05:50 AM Thread Starter
World Superbike Champion
 
Manolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rutherford, NJ
Posts: 2,460
Track suspension/geometry set up

I was speaking with a shop about chain length, rear tire position and stuff.

He started getting into suspension and geometry. Now it has me thinking. He was referencing about gsxr600 and r6 has their little secrets of geometry set up. But does not know zx6r...

So I wondering for you guys who does track days, what's your set up?

I remember watching a video this rider with a 07 zx6r, i noticed his forks are about 5mm higher than the top triple... I've always wonder what benefits do you get from this...

| Akrapovic Ti Evo | BMC Race Air Filter | Brembo RCS19 Master Cylinder | ECUnleahsed | Galfer Wave Rotors | Goodridge Superbike Pro Racing Brake Line Kit | Healtech Speedohealer | Jumper Mod | Kleen Air Mod | Motion Pro Revolver Throttle Kit | Ohlins 30mm Cartridge Kit & TTX Shock | Power Commander 5 | Ram Air Mod | Renthal Clip Ons & Kevlar Grips | Scotts Damper | Vortex -1/+3 Sprockets & Rearsets | Woodcraft Frame Slider |

Tuned 120.12 HP 46.58 FT LB Torque
Manolo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 06:30 AM
MotoGP Champion
 
Ebster1085's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4,348
I dont know much, but here is what I do know:

I had my forks rebuilt last season with Penske internals and sprung for my weight. My suspension tech told me to install them at OEM height which is about 10mm past the top triple. Forgot the exact measurement, but I have it written down somewhere. Forks require literally no adjustment after installation.

I also had a Penske double clicker refreshed and sprung for my weight and my suspension tech had me adjust it to the same length as the OEM unit. His default settings were close, but rebound had to be softened a bit.

Bike feels amazing and is leaps and bounds better than the OEM setup. Feels planted and confident in turns and have much better feel in the front and back. I am new to track time, but the few days I had on the new setup provided me with so much more confidence. I cant wait to get out there this year!
MotoCT likes this.

Track Bike: 2006 ZX6R
Daily: 2007 Speed Triple

A link to my build thread!
http://zx6r.com/racing/54737-my-2006...ack-build.html
Ebster1085 is offline  
post #3 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 07:53 AM
Track Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portsmouth U.K
Posts: 495
Yes, take a look at this Track tyres
And here TONY FOALE DESIGNS - Home page

Then there are the Bradley books
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Motor...s=john+bradley

Volume2 is more about materials and construction methods....


Then there is
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-D...cycle+dynamics

There is more including chain length sweet spot and ride height - but then I would have to kill ya!!! because I have read them and spent years understanding this stuff
TheEvilTwin likes this.
oldboyonrgv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 08:14 AM
Team Green
 
6derty6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 190

I Ride: 13 636 (Track) 12 WR4-Fatty Supermoto, 14 YZ250F (Dirt)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolo View Post
I was speaking with a shop about chain length, rear tire position and stuff.

He started getting into suspension and geometry. Now it has me thinking. He was referencing about gsxr600 and r6 has their little secrets of geometry set up. But does not know zx6r...

So I wondering for you guys who does track days, what's your set up?

I remember watching a video this rider with a 07 zx6r, i noticed his forks are about 5mm higher than the top triple... I've always wonder what benefits do you get from this...
There is a lot more than just a suspension set-up. Depending on how far you want to take it but usually ajustments are needed for different tracks. I would highly recommend reading suspension books (as oldboy stated above) to gain basic knowledge on how you suspension works, you'd be suprised how much it will help you. Good luck man!

Past Rides- 03 R6, 05 R6, 04 R1, 05 R1, 07 R1 & 08 1000rr, 11 10R.
6derty6 is offline  
post #5 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 12:10 PM
MotoGP Champion
 
mr5drums's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canton, GA
Posts: 4,663

I Ride: 2004 ZX6R Pearl Blazing Orange
Suspension is a galaxy far far away for me. Wish I knew more. Need to read.
PrestonK, austexjg and Ebster1085 like this.


“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”

Quote:
Originally Posted by pucksdown View Post
Drums had absolute control at full lean!
Fairing Repair--Condensed version
04 to 05 Swingarm Swap

For Motorcycle and Trackday videos, check out my youtube Channel
^^^ Look....Links ^^^
mr5drums is offline  
post #6 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 01:10 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
TheEvilTwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: No.VA, USA
Posts: 1,380

I Ride: ZX6, ZX10, BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolo View Post

So I wondering for you guys who does track days, what's your set up?

I remember watching a video this rider with a 07 zx6r, i noticed his forks are about 5mm higher than the top triple... I've always wonder what benefits do you get from this...
Suspension rule 1: Take notes. Note down what settings are where first.
Rule 2: Make only ONE adjustment at a time. Compression OR rebound, front OR rear. Don't change both, you won't know what made the difference.
Rule 3: Make SMALL changes. 1 click or turn at a time.
Rule 4: See rule 1

Now that the first order of business is out of the way.....

IMHO, 5mm is too much for me. I prefer 0mm myself. That is measuring from the tube to the top of the triple (not counting the caps). Rear ride height for me is +3mm static (without me on the bike). This set up helps the bike turn more quickly but is at the expense of a slightly less stable exit. That is where a good steering damper comes in as the front starts to loft.
Chain length will increase or decrease your wheelbase. Shorter chain= shorter wheelbase. As long as your adjuster will allow it. Personally, I like my wheelbase to remain about OEM specs but that varies as I change my sprockets. I'm not at a level where 3-4mm in wheelbase will make a huge difference. I still have braking and left-right transitions to work on.
If you set your mike up EXACTLY like mine (assuming you have an 07-08) then you might love it. You might not. There is no "perfect" set up because no two riders are the same weight and style. Further, your tires are part of your suspension and are an additional variable.
My advice would be to hook up with a suspension vendor at a track day. Usually it will cost you <$50 to work through the day. He or she can do a base line set up and then read your tires and feedback throughout the day and make tweaks here and there. Then refer to rule 1

CCS 132 Proudly sponsored by Amsoil, DC-MOTO.net, Manassas Honda Kawasaki and MARRC
2014 #1 RCGT, #2 MWSB, 2014 Sportsman Award, 2013 Amateur of the Year, 2012 Cornerworker of the Year
Follow Motosylum Racing

R6- Bonnie the Pirate 6
R100rs- 66k and counting!
R1200 GS/A- The moose is loose!
KTM 400 XCW- Riding dirty!
TheEvilTwin is offline  
post #7 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 01:50 PM
MotoGP Champion
 
oKayH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 4,509

I Ride: 09 ZX6R track, CRF150R stupidmoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldboyonrgv View Post
Yes, take a look at this Track tyres
And here TONY FOALE DESIGNS - Home page

Then there are the Bradley books
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Motor...s=john+bradley

Volume2 is more about materials and construction methods....


Then there is
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-D...cycle+dynamics

There is more including chain length sweet spot and ride height - but then I would have to kill ya!!! because I have read them and spent years understanding this stuff
Listen to this guy (btw, I still need to get you some data )

Also, buy the racetech book as a good primer to get your feet wet. This Penske article is good for basic setup. http://www.penskeshocks.com/assets/m...ng%20guide.pdf

CCS EX
More gas, less brake
oKayH is offline  
post #8 of 164 Old 01-14-2014, 03:35 PM
Pro Racer
 
Evil Cupcake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Danville, VA
Posts: 658

I Ride: Aprilia Dorsoduro, Track: 2013 Ninja 636, 2012 ZX6R
My 03.....I had 2 5mm spacers (10mm) to increase ride height in the rear and ran the front forks flush with the triples.....this was with Ohlins 20mm in 07 forks and an Ohlins triple rear shock.
My 13 I have a GP 25mm Cart kit in OEM forks and a Ohlins triple rear...run 7mm spacers in the rear and 3mm showing above the triples not counting the GP caps.

Take notes, set a baseline and go from there. Minute changes per session. Tire profiles, manufacturers, and compounds also will affect handling.
moto82199 likes this.

2012 ZX6R/2009 ZX6R (CCS/WERA Expert #163)
N2 Trackdays, KWS Motorsports, Lucas Oil, Bell Helmets, Woodcraft-CFM
http://www.n2td.org/
http://www.kwsmotorsports.com/
http://www.lucasoil.com/
http://www.bellhelmets.com/
http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/cgi-bin...i?display=home
Evil Cupcake is offline  
post #9 of 164 Old 01-15-2014, 01:45 AM
Track Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portsmouth U.K
Posts: 495
Seconded - notes and track maps most important.....
oldboyonrgv is offline  
post #10 of 164 Old 01-15-2014, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
World Superbike Champion
 
Manolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rutherford, NJ
Posts: 2,460
Thanks everyone. Definitely will be looking into these books.

| Akrapovic Ti Evo | BMC Race Air Filter | Brembo RCS19 Master Cylinder | ECUnleahsed | Galfer Wave Rotors | Goodridge Superbike Pro Racing Brake Line Kit | Healtech Speedohealer | Jumper Mod | Kleen Air Mod | Motion Pro Revolver Throttle Kit | Ohlins 30mm Cartridge Kit & TTX Shock | Power Commander 5 | Ram Air Mod | Renthal Clip Ons & Kevlar Grips | Scotts Damper | Vortex -1/+3 Sprockets & Rearsets | Woodcraft Frame Slider |

Tuned 120.12 HP 46.58 FT LB Torque
Manolo is offline  
post #11 of 164 Old 04-14-2016, 06:27 AM
Squid
 
sonicnofadz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 97
The setup for the 09-12 zx6r chassis is not the same for the other years (might be similar to the 13+). When using the stock triples, in order to have a good feeling with the front (so it doesn't chatter, tuck) and to increase trail, you need to raise the front ride height, and leave the rear ride height alone (do not shim the rear). This will allow you to trail brake hard into the turn and maintain good stability mid corner. Raising the rear will shift too much weight on the front, decrease trail, cause tank slappers and head shake, and the front will lose traction. This is only from my experience, and talking to other race mechanics...YMMV.
smokey11 likes this.

CCS #958

Last edited by sonicnofadz; 04-14-2016 at 06:29 AM.
sonicnofadz is offline  
post #12 of 164 Old 04-14-2016, 07:23 AM
MotoGP Champion
 
PainfullySlo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,256

I Ride: 64 Ducati Monza, 99 Sprint ST, 04 TTR125, 04 Sportster, 09 GSXR600, 12 Street Triple, 13 ZX6R
Garage
This is a 2.5 year old thread and this info has been covered in other posts since that time, but your information is correct. Some even run fork extenders to raise the front past flush...
PainfullySlo is offline  
post #13 of 164 Old 04-14-2016, 10:30 AM
World Superbike Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 1,334
Damn a two-and-a-half-year-old thread. It was just getting good. I must be bored. One thing I don't really agree with is making small changes to hydraulic settings. Sometimes you can't even feel the change you made. Make a 2-3 click change and then you can feel it. Whether better or worse. If you write the change down you can always go back to the original in small increments.
the prophet is offline  
post #14 of 164 Old 04-14-2016, 10:33 AM
World Superbike Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 1,334
One of the most important things with suspension set up and tuning is being able to feel what the bike is doing and relaying the information to the tuner. If you don't give good information to the tuner it's hard for them to make good changes to the bike. This is why learning how to do it yourself is the best thing you can do. Reading tires will give you a lot of information on Geometry setup.
Bivas and PainfullySlo like this.
the prophet is offline  
post #15 of 164 Old 04-14-2016, 10:42 AM
MotoGP Champion
 
sbk1198's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 4,684

I Ride: '09 ZX6R
Quote:
Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
This is a 2.5 year old thread and this info has been covered in other posts since that time, but your information is correct. Some even run fork extenders to raise the front past flush...
Do you have any links by chance? I've been meaning to ask about this, since I know nothing about ZX6R geometry and suspension setup. I figured I should do a solid day on the bike first and see how it feels as is now, but doesn't hurt to get a head start on it.
XPyrion likes this.

2007 ZZR600 (sold)
2006 CBR600 (sold)
2010 1198 (parted out across North America)
2013 CBR500R (race bike)
2009 ZX6R (race bike)
2015 R3 (project bike and future race bike)

Sponsors: Vortex Racing, MSM, MTR Cycle

April 2016 and April 2017 6OTM winner!
sbk1198 is offline  
Reply

  ZX6R Forum > ZX6R Forum > Racing

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Track tyres stevenet15 Racing 222 05-11-2017 01:43 PM
MARRC Track Days & Race School- 2014 TheEvilTwin Racing 6 01-12-2014 06:42 PM
Thinking of doing the whole streetable track fairings on the 10R.... Lobster Motorcycle Talk 30 12-15-2013 12:18 AM
New tyres on the track Dashy Racing 14 02-24-2013 08:28 PM
For track riding AND long days 09 cbr or 09 zx6? bikerjarrel The ZX6R 17 10-23-2011 12:02 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome