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X's Track Days

21K views 246 replies 18 participants last post by  XPyrion 
#1 · (Edited)
This is the first post continuing my life as a track day junky. Of course, since the 636 is new, it will be a slow transition from the 650R. Anyway, I wanted to get this thread started in case someone wanted to give some initial pointers for moving to the 636 and since track days are only 4 months away (eek!, time flies). It looks like I ended up creating a book so if no one reads this, I understand. I will have shorter posts, videos and pictures come April.

For a little history, the first day was on 9/9/2012 riding a 2009 650R. It was the Street Rider program offered by TrackAddix. I then bought gear and did 5 more days in 2013 and 7 days in 2014. I would have more track days but while the wife understands my addiction, she is not entirely supportive of it.

The start of 2014, I had lap times fast enough for the A group. I then had my first low side in 2014 at MPH (Motorsport Park Hastings) due to a heavy throttle hand, long session and lack of tire PSI attention. I had another low side a month later in the rain (and then some reservations). I scored my best lap a few months later. Throughout that time, I slowly added parts that I felt needed an upgrade (as can be seen in my sig) and should be doing the same thing with the 636.

Currently, on order I have Woodcraft frame sliders (and I am aware of potential consequences), adjustable levers since the clutch reach is just a bit too far and fender eliminator which has nothing to do whatsoever with tracking but the stocker is just huge. I might get some Techspecs also. Like the 650R though, still a street bike (and a budget) so no extremes yet. I also wanted to mention that if anyone tracks MPH or MAM, the Racechrono app is a nice addition for tracking laps on the cheap.

I plan to have my weight with gear around the 180-190 range. Yeah, I would love to get that lower but I do have a bit stockier build at 6 foot. I am initially going to set the bike at 30mm sag, if possible or get new springs if at the edge of adjustability.

Link to my 650R videos if anyone cares. I will be continuing with these and then merging in the 636 videos. As info, some of this was for the sake of getting good shots for some other riders also. I am going move away from that as I noticed it takes away from my learning.

https://www.youtube.com/user/XPyrion650
 
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#3 ·
Yeah, definitely not a sweet exhaust note. I can't wait to hear the 636 screaming down the straight.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the observation. That is about where I am at and I have heard that a few times. Now I just need to pick up speed. In order to do that though, I have to improve the consistency in my form and controls. Without that, I don't have the confidence to pick up speed.
 
#6 ·
First track bits on. A nice touch is the safety wire hole on the clutch cover.

 
#8 ·
The April 19th track day was rained out except for the first session so I only went out on the 650. I couldn't wait any longer though so I made a quick decision to do one tomorrow. Here is something to show at least. Should have some more shots and video later this week.

 
#10 · (Edited)
First track day on the ZX6R complete. I spend the first half of the day on the 650 and the second half on the ZX6R.

First impression is that the ZX6R feels much more comfortable at lean as compared to the 650. Acceleration is much faster and took me a bit to get used to. While the 650 would never induce bar wobble, I had quite a few instances where I had to control it on the straights. While it is possible to avoid wobble, it takes concentration and a damper would let me focus on other things. My only fear is that a damper would hide what I would call my issue of too much pressure on the bars. Still working through on how to properly right myself while keeping bar pressure low enough. The bumps didn't help either.

I have mixed feelings about the braking. I was bottoming the forks which most people said would happen. Not sure if that was causing my uneasiness. I just put EPFA's on the 650 and once warmed up, they are amazing. On the ZX6R, the stock pads seem consistent but not the same kind of bite at speed. They had no problem stopping so probably just something I need to adjust to for now.

I didn't really have it in me this track day and they added some greasy seam filler which made me a bit more cautious but for comparisons sake, here it is. My best lap time ever on the 650 for this track is 1:51.55. This weekend, it was a 1:58.75. On the ZX6R, I hit a 1:53.37. Pretty happy with that result.

A couple of pictures and a fast lap. It would be a fastest lap but of course I forgot to hit the record button on the last session. I will add a compilation later and some more notes.

Make sure you have energy and fluids.


Track prepped ladies.




Fast lap.
http://youtu.be/RZYGHWQa0jU
 
#11 ·
#12 ·
I am still a novice group track guy so take what I say with a grain of salt...

Assuming the numbers on the sides are your brake markers, in alot of corners it appears like you're making your turn in point really earky (before the last brake point)

Am I correct in my observation or are you purposely taking a line that turns in that early?
 
#16 ·
You are correct. I don't have the same confidence in the 650 and I am riding the 636 like the 650. Probably SR's also. Overall, it was not a good day on the 650 and I only had a few sessions on the 636, not enough to correct the issues. The 636 was yearning for me to push it more and sadly, I just wasn't prepared for that.

Going with what Painful said, if I go to one bike, that will allow me to adjust to the 636 better. The reason I am doing both right now is to get a comparison between the two. Same bike on same day allows me to do that more accurately. Since I am changing bikes at the half point, only the second bike (636 in this instance), requires me to get readjusted.
 
#15 ·
Great advice on keeping up your energy and fluids! You may have an easier time of it if you focus on only one bike. Splitting your time between them wont allow you to get comfortable on either.

As for bottoming your forks, a couple of turns of preload may help with that until you can get the bike properly sprung but if you are bottoming, that will absolutely take away some of your confidence on the bike.
 
#18 ·
The GPR did everything I hoped it would. At first, it felt a bit strange since I have never used a damper before. Once warmed it, it felt great. I started the day on setting 5 and ended on 10. I may go a bit higher next time out.

I went out on the 650 first again just to check things out and beat the 636 by less than a second today. I did get my fastest recorded time on the 636 though so that is looking up. Next time, 636 first and possibly only.

I will leave you with a picture I took during the break and I should have a compilation video up later this week.

 
#19 ·
Which forks were you bottoming? The Zx6? I weigh 175 lbs. with no gear and have stock springs on my 2013 Zx6r and do not bottom the forks. Maybe you need help setting them up. A bit of compression dampening goes a long way. You use a zip tie, yes? I have an Ohlins rear shock but did not change my fork springs. They work good for me. I'm A class in So. Calif. to give you an idea of my background. There are some fast Mo Foos out here.RockStorePhotos | PM session 05/11/2014 | D4C_6145
 
#20 ·
Yeah, I did say bottoming but I am about a cm away. I should have said fear of bottoming since I am not braking as hard as I could be. I currently weigh 190. I adjusted the preload to 3/4 max and will look into messing with some of the other settings next day out.

Since I took the 636 out for the second half again, I didn't really get the track time needed to make adjustments. There were only 2 hours left and 4 offs in that time, most likely due to a cooling track. It kind of screwed with my rhythm.

After watching some videos, the reason I was not faster on the 636 is due to throttle out of corners. It appears that while the damper makes me feel more comfortable, I am still slow on the throttle as compared to the 650. Something I will be conscious of next time.
 
#21 ·
#22 ·
I don't have a stabilizer on my 2013 Zx6r and it doesn't need one. It does not move around anymore than my old 2008 CBR1000 with a electronic stock steering stabilizer. The Ninja is rock solid at any speed. I have only got it to 140+ mph on my local track straight. The chassis is tuned really well. Turns well and is stable. The video looks like you could set up your corners a bit earlier and brake a bit later. But then, everyone could probably be told to brake later, right? The third turn after the straight away ( right turn) shows you a bit late to get the bike turned into the corner. What tires are you running? Q 3's are pretty good for street/track duty. Slicks would be better but we can't all set up a track only bike. I have run with A group guys that have slicks when I had Q 3's. Pretty competitive tires that don't seem to get greasy when they get hot. I have run um 20 mins on the track with no fade. Stick to the 636 and increase your lap times. Put a Ohlins ttx on the rear. You won't regret it. I bought one on sale for $900. Moto Mummy deal. Look on E bay, you could get lucky. The rear stock shock is soft. Maybe that's where your problem lies.
 
#25 · (Edited)
The damper discussion was in another thread but I will hit on that a bit. While I agree the bike is stable without one and I was able to pull the same lap times with/without it, the added security feeling is a bonus. At my track, I have two hard acceleration corners with no line that is entirely smooth. That means there is almost a 100% chance the front is coming off the ground before I can straighten the bike if I don't hesitate in my actions. Painful responded to my concerns well enough to convince me it was worthwhile and I definitely feel the difference it makes.

http://zx6r.com/zx6r/62934-2013-steering-damper-2.html#post1019322

As Painful and Smokey eluded to, my lines, shifting, braking, turn-ins are consistent with the 650, for what I felt comfortable with on that bike and that is hurting my progress. Adjusting those points will be my first order of business on the next track day.

The bike is stock other than what is listed in my signature. I run Q3's on the 650 and have a set for the 636 once the stock tires are done. Like the 650, I won't be making any other upgrades until I feel a particular part may be beneficial after enough track days to really get a feel for it. I may get some parts just to lose some weight since I know that is always beneficial. In the end, it is still a street bike so I won't be getting too crazy anytime soon.
 
#23 ·
I don't understand the value of riding two, completely different bikes, maybe once as a comparisonas you say but you have ridden the SV many many times you know that rides, why you feel the need to ride back to back every time I think is doing yourself a disservice, I feel. Why not take out one bike on work on that and improve that as opposed to switching and having to readjust? I just don't see the benefit, seems like more trouble than anything, loading two bikes etc.... Just don't get it man...
 
#24 ·
I still agree with this point as brought up by Painful. Since my previous track day turned out poorly on the Ninja 650, I wanted to do another one to eliminate my inconsistency as a verdict. It will be 636 from here on out. The 650 will be going along as backup only. BTW, I am doing this for the 650 forums and unfortunately, you guys that watch this have to suffer for it. I do appreciate you doing so.
 
#28 ·
After a week of reflection, feedback and normal data gathering, the focus for next week is my technique for braking/shifting, quick turn/bar input and getting back on the bike.

As for braking/shifting, my frustration along with others continuous feedback caused me to look back into this. I use the ease out the clutch approach but have always waited until the last moment to shift and then turn in. Someone pointed out that I have the whole braking zone to accomplish that.

For bar input, there are a few corners I enter really fast and am always worried about getting the bike leaned over to make it. After reading one of the latest topics here, I realized I just need to introduce more bar input. As for quick turn, someone pointed out one of my corners but I know of others where I could take advantage of this.

Why I have issues getting back on the bike is beyond me. I use the same technique to get off the bike and lean into the corner so I have no idea why I wasn't also using more of my lower body to move myself back on.

Anyway, those are my "duh" moments for the week. Thanks to those who provide topics for me to learn more things and to those who take the time to read these, including helping me out with feedback.

Here are a few pictures of my tires and the zip ties in case anyone sees any issues. I am also using it as a before and after since I will be trying some suspension adjustments. As for the zip ties, if you watched my videos there is definitely more braking to be had. Maybe I still have enough space in them.







 
#29 ·
The day started cold and overcast so I wasn't able to get any confident laps in the morning. A few of the faster riders were commenting about sliding the fronts in a few corners. In the afternoon, the sun came out making for more ideal track conditions. While I am not entirely happy with my progress, I did get my best lap ever.

I changed up how I was shifting off the front straight which boosted my confidence turning in. Unfortunately, I am still braking and turning in too early. In the second straight I am redlining in 3rd and should be shifting to 4th, I just didn't find the best place to do it. I may also need to shift to 2nd before the straight as my drive is very slow as compared to others. In other corners, I need to get on the gas sooner. Basically, I still need to work on everything. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nsLi-ccRww
 
#30 ·
Someone behind me got some video so that is much appreciated. I still have some work to do but looking better.

On a side note, I ordered some EPFA's since I liked them on the 650. The company sent me the FA's so I returned them for the EPFA's and reiterated that a few times since another company messed it up once when I bought them for the 650. Anyway, they sent another set of the FA's and then checked their warehouse to realize they didn't have EPFA's, it was a mistake. The price was too good to be true I guess. I have another set on the way hoping they are actually EPFA's. Will post once installed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNItgyFA9mU&feature=youtu.be
 
#31 ·
Finally got the EPFA's and installed. This last company shipped same day and I got them 2 days later with standard shipping. BTW, if someone local wants some stock pads with only 1,000 miles on them, let me know.



Included another picture of stock tires after 2 track days.

 
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