Race slicks compounds - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 30 Old 08-19-2016, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by madmax31 View Post
I've been running Dunlop N-TEC slicks on my track bike since I bought it. I'm running med in the front and in the rear and was just curious what a lot of you run and why?

This question doesn't obviously just apply to these tires, as I assume other tire manufactures have different compounds.

Side question is why is the 200 SO MUCH more than a 190 in this particular tire? Is the profile of a 200 really worth that extra $50? And yes, I'm bitching about $50.
Max,

I'd stick with the 190 size. That's what's recommended for our bikes generally. If you switch to the medium+ you'll get more rear tire life. Neither of us would notice the grip difference lol. Not until you start spinning up the rear tire anyways. Our last track day together I was just on S21 Hypersports and that was a fast B group pace

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post #17 of 30 Old 08-20-2016, 04:54 PM
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max,

i'd stick with the 190 size. That's what's recommended for our bikes generally. If you switch to the medium+ you'll get more rear tire life. Neither of us would notice the grip difference lol. Not until you start spinning up the rear tire anyways. Our last track day together i was just on s21 hypersports and that was a fast b group pace
180/55

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post #18 of 30 Old 08-21-2016, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Felixthecat View Post
180/55
That's the stock size. 190/60 seems to be a better track tire. Actual dimensional size varies by brand and model

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post #19 of 30 Old 08-22-2016, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Is that an effect of "heat cycles"? Or what is it. I've known slick tires lose their best grip since I was a kid and saw NASCAR pit crews and F1 ... But don't really know why.

I've seen so much conflicting info on heat cycles idk what to believe anymore. Lol
Heat cycles, at least as far as motorcycle racing tires are concerned, are a thing of the past.

Back in the day, natural rubber was kept flexible by the oils in it. After heating it up to operating temp the oils would rise to the surface and scrub away. Do that a couple of times and there were not enough oils left in the remaining rubber to keep it soft and flexible which is where the whole heat cycle thing comes from.

Today, tires are not made from natural rubber but rather chemical compounds which are much more soft and flexible, not to mention long lasting. For track use, the surface is gone LONG before a rider should even consider wondering if there might be reduced grip due to heat.

Think about it: On my street bike I have about 6k miles on my current set of Pireelli Angels (and still tons of tread left) which were mostly accumulated in short rides (<50 miles per trip I would guess). That is ~120 heat cycles and the tire still feels like new.
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post #20 of 30 Old 08-22-2016, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
Heat cycles, at least as far as motorcycle racing tires are concerned, are a thing of the past.

Back in the day, natural rubber was kept flexible by the oils in it. After heating it up to operating temp the oils would rise to the surface and scrub away. Do that a couple of times and there were not enough oils left in the remaining rubber to keep it soft and flexible which is where the whole heat cycle thing comes from.

Today, tires are not made from natural rubber but rather chemical compounds which are much more soft and flexible, not to mention long lasting. For track use, the surface is gone LONG before a rider should even consider wondering if there might be reduced grip due to heat.

Think about it: On my street bike I have about 6k miles on my current set of Pireelli Angels (and still tons of tread left) which were mostly accumulated in short rides (<50 miles per trip I would guess). That is ~120 heat cycles and the tire still feels like new.
That's what I thought. TONS of guys still go on talking about heat cycles. I've seen the blueing in my tires too...

What causes the tire to lose optimal grip quickly?

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post #21 of 30 Old 08-22-2016, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
That's the stock size. 190/60 seems to be a better track tire. Actual dimensional size varies by brand and model
I remember a conversation we were having a while ago where I said something similar and you told me I was crazy -__-
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post #22 of 30 Old 08-22-2016, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Felixthecat View Post
I remember a conversation we were having a while ago where I said something similar and you told me I was crazy -__-
Are you sure it was with me. Lol

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post #23 of 30 Old 08-22-2016, 01:55 PM
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"many Heat Cycles can I get out of a tire?

Heat Cycles is not an issue with Dunlop racing tires as it would be with other brands. The more important factor is how much tread is left on the tire. Stable fact: thicker rubber has more grip and develops more heat, thinner rubber has less grip and runs cooler. After each session you have less grip. As the tire wears out, you have less and less grip. It could be slight or it could be large.

Some riders call it heat cycling, but, in actuality, its the rubber getting thinner and thinner. It truly depends on how much the tire is worn out, and your specific demands for grip that determines when the tire is not usable for you."

Dunlop answered it well!

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post #24 of 30 Old 08-22-2016, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Felixthecat View Post
I remember a conversation we were having a while ago where I said something similar and you told me I was crazy -__-
I think the Pirelli are 200/55 in the superbike tire but f their pricing. Lol it's around $430 a set even with AFM vs $359 at Dunlop

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post #25 of 30 Old 08-23-2016, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
That's what I thought. TONS of guys still go on talking about heat cycles. I've seen the blueing in my tires too...

What causes the tire to lose optimal grip quickly?
That I can't say for certain as I have not educated myself on it. I just know that for some reason the SC0 (super-soft) tends to lose grip early on.

If I had to pander a guess, I would say that the outer layer of rubber is so soft that they probably had to use a firmer compound underneath to maintain the correct tire profile.

I notice a drop-off with the SC1 (soft) rear as well but it happens MUCH later...like at about the 50% tire wear mark so maybe after 2-3 races for me? They become track day/instruction tires at that point as I do not have to push anywhere near that hard when instructing.
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post #26 of 30 Old 08-23-2016, 08:37 AM
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Sounds about right ... Just talked to my suspension guy at Sonoma yesterday and he said that as soon as you're off that last 1-2 seconds of race pace you're well within the safe zone for using the tires longer

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post #27 of 30 Old 03-17-2017, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Max,

I'd stick with the 190 size. That's what's recommended for our bikes generally. If you switch to the medium+ you'll get more rear tire life. Neither of us would notice the grip difference lol. Not until you start spinning up the rear tire anyways. Our last track day together I was just on S21 Hypersports and that was a fast B group pace
Way to long ago of a post to bring back up from the dead to just say I finally purchased the damn slicks, but .... I just slicks. Ended up going with a 190 rear with a med+ for the rear and med. for the front.
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post #28 of 30 Old 03-22-2017, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by madmax31 View Post
Way to long ago of a post to bring back up from the dead to just say I finally purchased the damn slicks, but .... I just slicks. Ended up going with a 190 rear with a med+ for the rear and med. for the front.
I have two sets of slicks to sell, should get mine next time! I have some Dunlop 200/55's you should try next. And see which size works better for you.

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post #29 of 30 Old 03-22-2017, 08:13 AM
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Maybe unrelated, but I do track days on my 2013 ZX-6R and recently tried out a set of those Dunlop slicks takeoffs in good condition, in the 200 width. Honestly, even though the sidewall says it fits 5.5"-6.0" width rims (ours are 5.5 as you probably know), my main concern was with how extremely close the left edge of the rear tire was to the chain. I've done two track days with them with no incident so far and I keep my chain just barely lubricated ("just right"), but the next go around, I'm going 190 max. Also felt I had to wrestle the bike alot more in transitions. My 2 cents.
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I used to run 190 and 200 Dunlop N-TEC slicks on my 600s. I found turn in was incredible with the 200s since they're pinched on the narrower rim. But, I never would quite get to the edge on the 200s as you almost have to be flat to do it. I'm not sure I was faster on one set over they other. They were definitely a different feel and I could ride either. If money was an object I would have just run 190s.
One thing I can say I noticed running the 200 vs the 190 was confidence mid-corner. Like TDH I never got to the edge of the 200, but wow was I able to lean the bike over and feel very confident in that huge ass contact patch I had in the rear. My corner speed was awesome but I feel it sacrificed a little 'out-of-the-corner' pick up. Tip in was amazing, cornering was amazing... that little 600 trying to get that 200 spinning through a chicane? Struggle bus... I will run the 190's from now on because of that. I'm not sure if it'll help my lap times overall but I feel the bike struggled less on the 190 when trying to stand it up out of corners I'd agree with Rumble about feeling like I had to wrestle the bike more.

@MrRumble I wouldn't worry about how close the chain is to the tire. As long as it's not touching you're good


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post #30 of 30 Old 03-22-2017, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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I have two sets of slicks to sell, should get mine next time! I have some Dunlop 200/55's you should try next. And see which size works better for you.
I've had the 200 on the bike up until when I get the slicks in the mail. I'll hit you up when I get through this set. I do still have a pretty new front take off that I never put on the bike. Should be good for the rest of the year
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