2017 WSBK Season (Spoilers Inside) - Page 15 - ZX6R Forum
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post #211 of 228 Old 05-15-2017, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Going to have to watch this race now! First race wasn't as interesting and kinda disappointed in the red flag thing
I don't think there was one this weekend but they have been awesome, especially watching Razgatlioglu.

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post #212 of 228 Old 05-15-2017, 10:59 AM
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I don't think there was one this weekend but they have been awesome, especially watching Razgatlioglu.
STK1000 was interesting...followed the trend of the red flags which seemed to be going on a lot at Imola this weekend. 1 red flag in WSBK, 3 in WSS, 2 in STK1000, and surprisingly none in the 300 class.

Glad I didn't watch WSS and STK1000 live, because I just skipped through all the downtime caused by all the red flags.

Needless to say it was a great weekend for the Bologna guys

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post #213 of 228 Old 05-15-2017, 07:31 PM
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Wow. Red flags in BOTH WSBK races. One to clean the track in the second race and one from the crash in the first race. Chaz definitely dominated. He looked unstoppable. the points race would be a bit more interested if he hadn't crashed out of the lead a few weeks ago but that's racing I guess. Unreal.
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post #214 of 228 Old 05-15-2017, 07:46 PM
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Wow. Red flags in BOTH WSBK races. One to clean the track in the second race and one from the crash in the first race. Chaz definitely dominated. He looked unstoppable. the points race would be a bit more interested if he hadn't crashed out of the lead a few weeks ago but that's racing I guess. Unreal.
And for when his bike broke down with 1 lap to go in Assen while fighting for the win with Rea.

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post #215 of 228 Old 05-15-2017, 07:57 PM
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I forgot all about that holy shit. Bit of bad luck right there too. Poor guy haha. I know what it's like though, maybe not in that big of a stage but still.
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post #216 of 228 Old 05-15-2017, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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IMO the most impressive rider this season has been Xavi Fores since he is riding with a privateer team (no factory support or limited I assume) and is managing to get similar results considering that even BMW is running with some factory support. He's currently in 6th for the championship standings. I hope he gets another podium this year.
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post #217 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 05:28 AM
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IMO the most impressive rider this season has been Xavi Fores since he is riding with a privateer team (no factory support or limited I assume) and is managing to get similar results considering that even BMW is running with some factory support. He's currently in 6th for the championship standings. I hope he gets another podium this year.
Actually the Barni team is getting a lot of factory support. In fact they said his bike is almost identical to the Aruba Ducati bikes this year...almost no difference between the parts they have available. They're just not managed by the factory that's all.

Still, I agree that he's been pretty impressive so far this year.

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post #218 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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Actually the Barni team is getting a lot of factory support. In fact they said his bike is almost identical to the Aruba Ducati bikes this year...almost no difference between the parts they have available. They're just not managed by the factory that's all.

Still, I agree that he's been pretty impressive so far this year.
I didn't know that they had good support. I was assuming they were running a team like the Pedercini Kawasaki, which are lucky if they finish with the top 10. It was nice to see him beat Melandri.

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post #219 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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So far the grid starting order change has done little to nothing in changing race results. A spec ECU (à la MotoGP) will prove to have some solutions for this. Additionally, Ducati needs to stop their BIGGER is better approach to engine design.

----------------

Spec ECU for WorldSBK?

A unified electronics package with a standard ECU (Electronic Control Unit) is one step that is being discussed, but that is far from a silver bullet with which to cure all ills in the WorldSBK paddock. The biggest reason for Kawasaki and Ducati dominating proceedings is manpower and resources. With more people in the garage and more resources spent on electronics and overall bike development they have proved the class of the field. Regulating that all bikes run the same specification of electronics will close the gap but not eliminate it.

That is one of the reasons why some teams, such as the Ten Kate team, have called for more drastic changes. Speaking over the weekend Ronald ten Kate said, “The ECU would be a start but bringing in some concessions similar to MotoGP would be a better solution.”

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post #220 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 05:57 PM
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That would suck imo. I'd rather see the other manufacturers step up than try to slow kawi and Ducati down..
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post #221 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 07:01 PM
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What a bunch of bullshit! Let's reward the good guys by punishing them and reward the crybabies by giving them participation trophies! Who's fault is it that Ducati and Kawasaki make some of the best PRODUCTION bikes in that class? Look at STK1000...those are essentially stock bikes with a few bolt-ons. And who's leading that championship?? A Ducati and a Kawasaki! Go figure!

So they basically want to take a perfectly good production bike, and yank the ECU out of it which the factory engineers put so much work into, and replace it with some bogus spec one that everyone will use?? That's a stupid idea. Not to mention that how is that going to help anyone? They're not winning races because of their ECU's. They're winning because first off Jonathan Rea and Chaz Davies are beasts, and because the Panigale and ZX10 handle pretty damn well. They're not faster than the others on the straight. I just don't see their wins coming solely from some engine-related advantage. The WSBK bikes have already been neutered a few years ago when they restricted a lot of stuff. That's what forced all the manufacturers (except for Honda cuz apparently they couldn't be bothered) to release much better production bikes since they knew they couldn't modify the shit out of them like they did before 2014.

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post #222 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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That would suck imo. I'd rather see the other manufacturers step up than try to slow kawi and Ducati down..
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What a bunch of bullshit! Let's reward the good guys by punishing them and reward the crybabies by giving them participation trophies! Who's fault is it that Ducati and Kawasaki make some of the best PRODUCTION bikes in that class? Look at STK1000...those are essentially stock bikes with a few bolt-ons. And who's leading that championship?? A Ducati and a Kawasaki! Go figure!

So they basically want to take a perfectly good production bike, and yank the ECU out of it which the factory engineers put so much work into, and replace it with some bogus spec one that everyone will use?? That's a stupid idea. Not to mention that how is that going to help anyone? They're not winning races because of their ECU's. They're winning because first off Jonathan Rea and Chaz Davies are beasts, and because the Panigale and ZX10 handle pretty damn well. They're not faster than the others on the straight. I just don't see their wins coming solely from some engine-related advantage. The WSBK bikes have already been neutered a few years ago when they restricted a lot of stuff. That's what forced all the manufacturers (except for Honda cuz apparently they couldn't be bothered) to release much better production bikes since they knew they couldn't modify the shit out of them like they did before 2014.
Actually, as far as I am aware, they don't all use factory ECU's. It would be impossible to make use of all their telemetry using the only the OEM ECU, unless it's a race spec model not available to the public. I think they either run a Superbike Spec Motec or Magneti Mareilli unit with a price cap of 8000 € regardless of the manufacturer. See page 86 of the WSBK rulebook

I remember this from an interview I read when Laverty was with Suzuki in WSBK and they were switching ECU manufacturers due to difficulties tuning engine braking : WSBK Interview - WSBK - Q&A: Davide Gentile (Eugene Laverty's Data Analyst)

MotoAmerica has the identical rules to allow a pathway to world level racing. Superbike specs there are also running MM ECU's and even FTECU is getting in on the action with their own unit for the yamaha R6 and some other packages for the superstock literbikes.
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post #223 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 07:56 PM
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Oh yeah, that's right, I remember reading about that a while back. You're right.

Still though...they all need to stop bitching and just strive to be the best. In GP it was Ducati that complained because they sucked so they changed the rules to help them out. In WSBK where Ducati dominated a lot and Honda has been sucking for many years, it's Honda and others that bitch.

If you want to win...hire more quality people to work on your team, make a better bike, and hire a better rider. That's pretty much all there is to it!

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post #224 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, that's right, I remember reading about that a while back. You're right.

Still though...they all need to stop bitching and just strive to be the best. In GP it was Ducati that complained because they sucked so they changed the rules to help them out. In WSBK where Ducati dominated a lot and Honda has been sucking for many years, it's Honda and others that bitch.

If you want to win...hire more quality people to work on your team, make a better bike, and hire a better rider. That's pretty much all there is to it!
Or even better . . . the all the manufactuers are equally competitive in BSB because THERE IS NO traction control, launch control or anti wheelie

Problem solved

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post #225 of 228 Old 05-16-2017, 08:33 PM
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Or even better . . . the all the manufactuers are equally competitive in BSB because THERE IS NO traction control, launch control or anti wheelie

Problem solved
Yeah I know...the Brits are always a bit more crazy. But that doesn't really promote improvement in technology. Because of the lack of electronics in BSB, you can make a 10 year old bike competitive as long as your engine is strong. What's the point of all these bikes having all those electronic gizmos then if they're just going to unplug it all?

Personally I'd be scared shitless to ride a 220 hp bike without TC! lol...I had a 160-hp bike which had TC and I'm very glad I had it. I'm pretty sure it saved my ass from a few major slides and possible high-sides!

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