2017 MotoGP Season (Spoilers Inside) - Page 3 - ZX6R Forum
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post #31 of 102 Old 11-23-2016, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
Also, this is just probably the cheapskate in me...but why do all these teams waste so much money on new bodywork, suits, and other livery changes just for a test? I can understand when testing the new 2017 bikes, because maybe they don't have the next year's livery done yet, so you might as well just paint it black or something simply, but why spend all that money on the suits and bodywork for the 2016 bikes??

Then again, wedding dressing are expensive and typically worn once only too so whatever...lol
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Marketing my friend all marketing and the costs are relatively small, bodywork and some vinyl is a drop in the ocean that is their annual budget and the suits are not that big of a deal either... two additional suits per rider for companies like Dainese, Alpinestars is nothing not even 1% of their racing budget, now weight that vs the marketing benefit and you see it's quite a good deal actually. I've already started rolling up pennies to save up for the new D-air suit Pol Espargaro debuted...
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Originally Posted by jd41 View Post
Question answered here: https://motomatters.com/analysis/201...o_prevent.html

Summary: conflicting contracts.
I was gonna chime in on this as it's in my wheelhouse. You guys covered the basics but I wanted to add one point as well.

It isn't about marketing as much as it's about not marketing. The testing livery is the only time during the entire year that the factory bikes (or other satellite bikes) aren't branded. They are just Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, etc. Right after the last race of the season, and going into the next season, there are contracts ending with sponsors. Those 2016 sponsors paid into the racing side. Not practice. They paid to slap logos and make the bike "Movistar Yamaha" for the season. Not 365 days of the year. The 2017 season contracts and sponsorships are still being worked out most definitely. There are others vying for more sponsors as well. So they don't run the sponsor livery and run a regular style scheme. It's more for the riders I think than anything else. They can have a little say in what they want to look like on the bike for a change
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post #32 of 102 Old 11-23-2016, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerGroove View Post
I was gonna chime in on this as it's in my wheelhouse. You guys covered the basics but I wanted to add one point as well.

It isn't about marketing as much as it's about not marketing. The testing livery is the only time during the entire year that the factory bikes (or other satellite bikes) aren't branded. They are just Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, etc. Right after the last race of the season, and going into the next season, there are contracts ending with sponsors. Those 2016 sponsors paid into the racing side. Not practice. They paid to slap logos and make the bike "Movistar Yamaha" for the season. Not 365 days of the year. The 2017 season contracts and sponsorships are still being worked out most definitely. There are others vying for more sponsors as well. So they don't run the sponsor livery and run a regular style scheme. It's more for the riders I think than anything else. They can have a little say in what they want to look like on the bike for a change
Ahhhhh! Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense. I never would've thought about the sponsor contracts and when they end/start. It's funny that they're either not allowed to or don't want to brand the bikes and suits without the contracts, whereas me and your typical average joe amateur racers are putting as much stickers and decals on our bikes cuz it makes it look cooler and more "racing-legit" without a single dime from those companies

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post #33 of 102 Old 11-23-2016, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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MotoGP Results - Jerez MotoGP/WorldSBK test times - Wednesday

MotoGP
Pos No Rider Bike Time Diff Prev
1 8 Héctor Barberá Ducati GP16 1:39.614
2 76 Loris Baz Ducati GP15 1:39.806 0.192 0.192
3 19 Álvaro Bautista Ducati GP16 1:39.862 0.248 0.056
4 45 Scott Redding Ducati GP16 1:40.085 0.471 0.223
5 41 Aleix Espargaró Aprilia RS-GP 1:40.086 0.472 0.001
6 51 Michele Pirro Ducati GP17 1:40.092 0.478 0.006
7 29 Andrea Iannone Suzuki GSX-RR 1:40.149 0.535 0.057
8 43 Jack Miller Honda RC213V 1:40.340 0.726 0.191
9 9 Danilo Petrucci Ducati GP17 1:40.432 0.818 0.092
10 17 Karel Abraham Ducati GP15 1:40.484 0.870 0.052
11 36 Mika Kallio KTM RC16 1:41.889 2.275 1.405
12 12 Takuya Tsuda Suzuki GSX-RR 1:42.003 2.389 0.114
13 38 Bradley Smith KTM RC16 1:42.362 2.748 0.359
14 72 Hiroshi Aoyama Honda RC213V 1:42.531 2.917 0.169
15 22 Sam Lowes Aprilia RS-GP 1:43.021 3.407 0.490

And the impressively similar WSBK test times

WorldSBK
Pos No Rider Bike Time Diff Prev
1 1 Jonathan Rea Kawasaki ZX-10R 1:39.739
2 7 Chaz Davies Ducati Panigale R 1:40.409 0.670 0.670
3 66 Tom Sykes Kawasaki ZX-10R 1:40.611 0.872 0.202
4 122 Alex Lowes Yamaha YZF-R1 1:40.985 1.246 0.374
5 32 Lorenzo Savadori Aprilia RSV4 RF 1:41.048 1.309 0.063
6 33 Marco Melandri Ducati Panigale R 1:41.288 1.549 0.240
7 2 Leon Camier MV Agusta F4 1:41.486 1.747 0.198
8 50 Eugene Laverty Aprilia RSV4 RF 1:41.692 1.953 0.206
9 60 Michael Vd Mark Yamaha YZF-R1 1:41.830 2.091 0.138

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post #34 of 102 Old 11-23-2016, 09:17 PM
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Wait wait wait...let me get this straight. Jonathan Rea was faster than pretty much all the MotoGP guys, and only 0.1 seconds slower than Barbera...on a production bike? And Chaz Davies faster than about half the Ducati GP15, GP16, and GP17....on a Panigale?

I can't help but smile! So far for Dorna neutering the WSBK bikes with the rules they imposed a couple of years ago because they saw the WSBK bikes were getting to be too close to the performance of the ridiculously expensive GP bikes. Not taking away anything from Rea and Davies, but I'm wondering how guys like Marquez, Lorenzo, and Rossi would do on the factory WSBK Kawasaki, Ducati or Aprilia if they had some time to get used to them?

Also, Laverty needs to step up his game. He better be ready to run at the front once the season starts. Can't be slower than his teammate. Not looking good so far, but I'll give him a break since it's his first time on a WSBK machine with Pirellis in the last 2 years.
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post #35 of 102 Old 11-23-2016, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
Wait wait wait...let me get this straight. Jonathan Rea was faster than pretty much all the MotoGP guys, and only 0.1 seconds slower than Barbera...on a production bike? And Chaz Davies faster than about half the Ducati GP15, GP16, and GP17....on a Panigale?

I can't help but smile! So far for Dorna neutering the WSBK bikes with the rules they imposed a couple of years ago because they saw the WSBK bikes were getting to be too close to the performance of the ridiculously expensive GP bikes. Not taking away anything from Rea and Davies, but I'm wondering how guys like Marquez, Lorenzo, and Rossi would do on the factory WSBK Kawasaki, Ducati or Aprilia if they had some time to get used to them?

Also, Laverty needs to step up his game. He better be ready to run at the front once the season starts. Can't be slower than his teammate. Not looking good so far, but I'll give him a break since it's his first time on a WSBK machine with Pirellis in the last 2 years.
Agreed.

I realized how close the times when the series changed from MotoGP to WSBK at Laguna seca in 2013/2014.

2013 Stefan Bradl pole position at 1’21.176
2014 Tom Sykes pole position at 1'21.811

I'm calling it right now, Laverty will take the WSBK championship . Wishful thinking.

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post #36 of 102 Old 11-23-2016, 11:21 PM
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Agreed.

I realized how close the times when the series changed from MotoGP to WSBK at Laguna seca in 2013/2014.

2013 Stefan Bradl pole position at 1’21.176
2014 Tom Sykes pole position at 1'21.811

I'm calling it right now, Laverty will take the WSBK championship . Wishful thinking.
Yeah I saw a video a few years ago where they were talking about the difference between GP and WSBK. Supposedly, that's not the first time they backed up the development. First time it happened was around mid 2000s, where the top WSBK guys were running really close to some of the MotoGP lap times. They mentioned that the shorter twistier tracks were the ones where the smallest difference was seen (obviously), such as Jerez, Donnington Park, Laguna, etc. Whereas tracks with long straights, the differences was a bit larger. A good example is Misano. In 2006 in WSBK, qualifying times were high 1:33s with race pace being low 1:35s. In MotoGP in 2008, Stoner had set the record in qualifying with a low 1:33, and Rossi set the fastest time in the race with a 1:34.9, race pace being in the low 1:35s as well.

I will be fine with either Laverty or Davies winning it!

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post #37 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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MotoGP/ WSBK Test Times Thursday




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post #38 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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https://motomatters.com/results/2016...athan_rea.html

MotoGP
Pos No Rider Bike Time Diff Prev
1 19 Álvaro Bautista Ducati GP16 1:38.946
2 76 Loris Baz Ducati GP15 1:39.184 0.238 0.238
3 8 Héctor Barberá Ducati GP16 1:39.542 0.596 0.358
4 41 Aleix Espargaró Aprilia RS-GP 1:39.675 0.729 0.133
5 9 Danilo Petrucci Ducati GP17 1:39.766 0.820 0.091
6 17 Karel Abraham Ducati GP15 1:39.776 0.830 0.010
7 51 Michele Pirro Ducati GP17 1:39.887 0.941 0.111
8 45 Scott Redding Ducati GP16 1:39.985 1.039 0.098
9 43 Jack Miller Honda RC213V 1:40.307 1.361 0.322
10 36 Mika Kallio KTM RC16 1:40.505 1.559 0.198
11 12 Takuya Tsuda Suzuki GSX-RR 1:40.942 1.996 0.437
12 72 Hiroshi Aoyama Honda RC213V 1:41.003 2.057 0.061
13 38 Bradley Smith KTM RC16 1:41.621 2.675 0.618
14 22 Sam Lowes Aprilia RS-GP 1:42.312 3.366 0.691

WorldSBK
Pos No Rider Bike Time Diff Prev
1 1 Jonathan Rea Kawasaki ZX-10R 1:38.721
2 7 Chaz Davies Ducati Panigale R 1:39.116 0.395 0.395
3 66 Tom Sykes Kawasaki ZX-10R 1:39.461 0.740 0.345
4 33 Marco Melandri Ducati Panigale R 1:39.694 0.973 0.233
5 122 Alex Lowes Yamaha YZF-R1 1:40.142 1.421 0.448
6 2 Leon Camier MV Agusta F4 1:40.693 1.972 0.551
7 60 Michael Vd Mark Yamaha YZF-R1 1:41.328 2.607 0.635

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post #39 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 12:18 PM
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I don't know those times aren't that surprising to me... weren't there similar results last year as well... WSBK champ faster than a rider who is struggling to get in the top 10 in Moto GP on a good day... if he blew Vinales or Jlo's times out of the water than yeah but against Barbera... meh. Yes he's on a production bike but a SBK still put out close to 250hp like Moto GP, use the same suspension, and with the spec electronics I'd bet they are even closer in spec.
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post #40 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 02:09 PM
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We're talking about guys like Barbera and Bautista who have been on the front row in some GP races in the past, and had top 5 finishes! And they are world champions in other intermediate categories in GP. It doesn't even matter who they are...the fact that the bikes are capable is what impresses me.

I think it's funny to see this because I'm guessing those GP guys feel a bit embarrassed lol

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post #41 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 06:57 PM
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I don't know those times aren't that surprising to me... weren't there similar results last year as well... WSBK champ faster than a rider who is struggling to get in the top 10 in Moto GP on a good day... if he blew Vinales or Jlo's times out of the water than yeah but against Barbera... meh. Yes he's on a production bike but a SBK still put out close to 250hp like Moto GP, use the same suspension, and with the spec electronics I'd bet they are even closer in spec.
Yeah? Well here's some food for thought...Rossi's POLE setting qualifying lap from this year was a 1:38.736 in damn near perfect conditions.

I'm just gonna chuck one up for WSBK and Pirelli....cuz Rea on his ZX10R with Pirellis in cold weather would've been gridded in pole position in a MotoGP race
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post #42 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 09:31 PM
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Yeah? Well here's some food for thought...Rossi's POLE setting qualifying lap from this year was a 1:38.736 in damn near perfect conditions.

I'm just gonna chuck one up for WSBK and Pirelli....cuz Rea on his ZX10R with Pirellis in cold weather would've been gridded in pole position in a MotoGP race
I agree on chalk one up to WSBK and PirellI, kind of my point, WSBK "production " machines really aren't as far off from Moto GP as people think... Especially with the spec ECU, the times shouldn't be so surprising at least not to me. Throw in what seems to be a better tire, the Pirelli and there you go. I mean they are both top riders on 250hp machines how far off would you expect them to be
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post #43 of 102 Old 11-24-2016, 10:29 PM
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It's just interesting because they're not meant to be so close. Dorna neutered the WSBK bikes by limiting things they can do because they wanted MotoGP to be more special and the elite series. They didn't want the WSBK guys to get so close to the GP performance. In all honesty, there typically is about a 2 second difference at most tracks, but Jerez is one of those smaller twistier tracks, so top speed isn't as big of an issue.

Also, WSBK bikes aren't putting down 250 hp. More like 230...but still. Fast as fuck! But not as fast as they used to be 2-3 years ago. I remember when Biaggi hit close to 210 mph on the straight at Phillip Island on the RSV4. Then they changed the rules and that dropped all the bikes by about 10-15 mph from where they were.

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post #44 of 102 Old 12-01-2016, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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post #45 of 102 Old 12-05-2016, 01:57 PM
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