Triumph to supply Moto2 Engine From 2019 - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Triumph to supply Moto2 Engine From 2019

https://motomatters.com/news/2017/01...+(MotoMatters)

Triumph set to take over Moto2 engine supply in 2018 - Bikesport News

"According to both Bikesportnews.com (link is external), who were first to spot the deal, and Speedweek.com (link is external), the deal with Dorna has now been signed, and Triumph is to become the new official engine supplier for Moto2 from 2019. The engine should be ready for testing during the 2018 season, in preparation for 2019.

German-language publication Speedweek claims that the engine is to be a new 750cc triple based on the Daytona 675R engine. However, it seems more likely that the engine will be based on the new 765cc triple rumored to be presented in a new sports-oriented bike at the MCN London Motorcycle Show in February."

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post #2 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 06:29 PM
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I saw that, and it does but doesn't make sense.

I get the part about Honda no longer wanted to produce (also support?) a motor that they don't even deploy in any of their model offerings.

As well, I think the 3 cylinder will be a cool engine platform for the middleweight class.

What I don't get is why they feel the need to increase the displacement and power? The 600cc is already a large enough displacement and makes enough power. What's the rationale behind the supposed 750 to 765 cc motor?


Do Moto2 riders feel they need more cubes for some reason?
Are they trying to lessen the gap between Moto2 and MotoGP?

Last edited by Sandman; 01-08-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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post #3 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 06:52 PM
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Yeah I don't get it either. Personally I would've rather seen them use either R6 or ZX6R engines if Honda's stepping out.

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post #4 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 06:56 PM
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Also, not sure how true this is, but I've heard that Moto 2 bikes are only pushing about 120 hp at the wheel...which is surprisingly low to me. That's about 30 hp less than the top WSS bikes, yet they're almost always faster on the straights at most tracks, than the WSS bikes. How are they getting that speed then? Is it all in the aerodynamics? Are those Dunlops that much stickier than the Pirellis that it allows the Moto 2 guys to drive out of corners that much faster? Or is the 120 hp a bogus number?

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post #5 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
I saw that, and it does but doesn't make sense.

I get the part about Honda no longer wanted to produce (also support?) a motor that they don't even deploy in any of their model offerings.

As well, I think the 3 cylinder will be a cool engine platform for the middleweight class.

What I don't get is why they feel the need to increase the displacement and power? The 600cc is already a large enough displacement and makes enough power. What's the rationale behind the supposed 750 to 765 cc motor?


Do Moto2 riders feel they need more cubes for some reason?
Are they trying to lessen the gap between Moto2 and MotoGP?
I think you are forgetting that a 675cc 3 cylinder engine is equal to 600cc 4 cyclinder in terms of power, just they both make power differently, the 675 is already raced against 600s in BSB and WSS, and both make about the same in race trim.

But I believe this has something to do with their decision as well... If they are using this 180hp powerplant then I'm all for it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
Yeah I don't get it either. Personally I would've rather seen them use either R6 or ZX6R engines if Honda's stepping out.
I agree I would like to see them open it up to all manufacturers which might revive the 600 market.

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Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
Also, not sure how true this is, but I've heard that Moto 2 bikes are only pushing about 120 hp at the wheel...which is surprisingly low to me. That's about 30 hp less than the top WSS bikes, yet they're almost always faster on the straights at most tracks, than the WSS bikes. How are they getting that speed then? Is it all in the aerodynamics? Are those Dunlops that much stickier than the Pirellis that it allows the Moto 2 guys to drive out of corners that much faster? Or is the 120 hp a bogus number?
Not sure where you are getting your numbers but Moto2 bikes are quoted in high 120's to 130 while the Ten Kate 600rr is a touch over 140hp. Also Moto 2 bikes are about 20-30lbs lighter than the WSS min weight. Finally yes the Dunlops they are that much better, the larger size and profile allow for steeper lean angles and the ability to get the power down earlier. Also the chassis are sublime way more stiff than production frames allowing much higher corner speeds. All those factors and and different level of talent and there you go.
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post #6 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 07:28 PM
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Not sure where you are getting your numbers but Moto2 bikes are quoted in high 120's to 130 while the Ten Kate 600rr is a touch over 140hp. Also Moto 2 bikes are about 20-30lbs lighter than the WSS min weight. Finally yes the Dunlops they are that much better, the larger size and profile allow for steeper lean angles and the ability to get the power down earlier. Also the chassis are sublime way more stiff than production frames allowing much higher corner speeds. All those factors and and different level of talent and there you go.
Just a few other sources on other forums, and friends talking in the paddock...but you're pretty much saying the same thing. 120 hp range for Moto 2 bikes...it's just lower than I imagined. I was thinking based on them power down the straights that surely they're at least as powerful as the WSS bikes, but I guess not.

Found this now from back in 2010 which pretty much agrees with what you say and what I've heard before. Learn something new every day I guess! haha

https://motomatters.com/news/2010/02...e_125_bhp.html

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post #7 of 30 Old 01-08-2017, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey11
I think you are forgetting that a 675cc 3 cylinder engine is equal to 600cc 4 cyclinder in terms of power, just they both make power differently, the 675 is already raced against 600s in BSB and WSS, and both make about the same in race trim.
The article clearly states the motors will be 750cc's, or more. That equates to more power than the current 600cc RR motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey11
I agree I would like to see them open it up to all manufacturers which might revive the 600 market.
Well, the Moto2 category is the least expensive to race in, in part due to shared engines as well as the lack of complicated electronics. Still, I'm surprised Moto3 is more expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey11
Not sure where you are getting your numbers but Moto2 bikes are quoted in high 120's to 130 while the Ten Kate 600rr is a touch over 140hp. Also Moto 2 bikes are about 20-30lbs lighter than the WSS min weight. Finally yes the Dunlops they are that much better, the larger size and profile allow for steeper lean angles and the ability to get the power down earlier. Also the chassis are sublime way more stiff than production frames allowing much higher corner speeds. All those factors and and different level of talent and there you go.
Yep. Around 130 RWHP and ~330lb race weight. That is extremely fast.
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post #8 of 30 Old 01-09-2017, 09:44 AM
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post #9 of 30 Old 01-09-2017, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
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Well, the Moto2 category is the least expensive to race in, in part due to shared engines as well as the lack of complicated electronics. Still, I'm surprised Moto3 is more expensive.
Moto3 is more costly for the same reasons that MotoGP bikes are insanely expensive. They are not using anything that's considered "production". They're all prototype bikes. For instance... most Moto2 bikes use the same chassis... Kalex. Coupled with production based engines and lack of electronics makes them much less expensive to build and run. Even if they're hovering around in the 6-digit numbers as far as cost. Moto3 engines are prototypes. The chassis are prototypes.

You can buy a Kalex chassis if you have the money. But try to buy a Mahindra, KTM, of Honda Moto3 chassis. You can't... because they're all secret designs. Kalex, for example, has most of their chassis specs on their website for everyone to see and even have 3D mockups of the chassis on display.
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post #10 of 30 Old 01-09-2017, 01:15 PM
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Moto3 is more costly for the same reasons that MotoGP bikes are insanely expensive. They are not using anything that's considered "production". They're all prototype bikes. For instance... most Moto2 bikes use the same chassis... Kalex. Coupled with production based engines and lack of electronics makes them much less expensive to build and run. Even if they're hovering around in the 6-digit numbers as far as cost. Moto3 engines are prototypes. The chassis are prototypes.

You can buy a Kalex chassis if you have the money. But try to buy a Mahindra, KTM, of Honda Moto3 chassis. You can't... because they're all secret designs. Kalex, for example, has most of their chassis specs on their website for everyone to see and even have 3D mockups of the chassis on display.
KTM and Honda both put Moto 3 replica bikes up for sale for anyone to buy (not mass production, but I think they were "buit-to-order"...so you had to get them directly from manufacturer). One was in the high $20k range and the other in the low $40k range if I remember, but that one was a lot closer to the actual Moto 3 bikes. Engines were slightly detuned, but as far as I remember the chassis and most components were the same. I don't think they're that much of a secret.
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post #11 of 30 Old 01-09-2017, 01:19 PM
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I'm so looking forward to watching Moto2 now...hearing those triples all lined up is going to be awesome.

Woot: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/moto...supplier-2019/
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post #12 of 30 Old 01-09-2017, 06:42 PM
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Probably related to this (new Street Triple with increased engine capacity to meet Euro 4 regulations, details coming Jan 10): GAME CHANGER | Triumph Motorcycles

I have my order in for the RS version which is supposed to be putting out 130HP. Ohlins, brembo! Can't wait till tomorrow to get the full picture...

The New MV Agusta F3 triple is already bored out to 800cc from its former 675.
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/popu...agusta-f3-800/

Seems there is no such thing as too many cubes. The MV F3 is 381lbs dry; Brembo monoblocs;EAS, slipper clutch with 146bhp in stock form.

Perhaps the most telling thing is MV Agusta is releasing the current F3 675 @€13,999 - Suzuki's GSX-R750 is MSRP @ €13,499 - Ducati's middle weight superbike, the 848 fetches €14,790. MV Agusta says they are not releasing the price yet for the F3 800, but to expect it to be inline with the F3 675 and its competition.

Would you spend €500 more than a Gixxer with vastly better equipment? Or, for less than €210 more than the Ducati would you be enchanted by the "Other Italian" bike with very comparable, if not the exact same equipment as the Ducati? I know I would.

You are seeing the new face of the middle weight sportbikes, and the racing category displacement of the near future. Japan Inc. with have to come up with something bigger than even our beloved 636. It will have to nudge 750cc once again.

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post #13 of 30 Old 01-09-2017, 06:43 PM
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-10-2017, 08:24 AM
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with Honda ditching the CBR 600RR I can understand there withdrawal from MOTO2.

I like the idea of triumph taking the helm as it will probably push triumph to update the aging Daytona to help tie in with the division.
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post #15 of 30 Old 01-10-2017, 09:19 AM
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The New MV Agusta F3 triple is already bored out to 800cc from its former 675.
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/popu...agusta-f3-800/

Seems there is no such thing as too many cubes. The MV F3 is 381lbs dry; Brembo monoblocs;EAS, slipper clutch with 146bhp in stock form.

Perhaps the most telling thing is MV Agusta is releasing the current F3 675 @€13,999 - Suzuki's GSX-R750 is MSRP @ €13,499 - Ducati's middle weight superbike, the 848 fetches €14,790. MV Agusta says they are not releasing the price yet for the F3 800, but to expect it to be inline with the F3 675 and its competition.

Would you spend €500 more than a Gixxer with vastly better equipment? Or, for less than €210 more than the Ducati would you be enchanted by the "Other Italian" bike with very comparable, if not the exact same equipment as the Ducati? I know I would.

You are seeing the new face of the middle weight sportbikes, and the racing category displacement of the near future. Japan Inc. with have to come up with something bigger than even our beloved 636. It will have to nudge 750cc once again.
Dude, I know all about the F3. A mate had one. Never ending problems and with their financial issues I don't think I'd ever touch an MV product. So off the table.

I am upgrading my 2013 Street Triple to the new one and hence am eager to see the new bike (love the tie in with Moto2 as an added benefit).

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