Running Wide - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 25 Old 04-17-2017, 10:47 AM
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I Ride: 2016 gsxr 750, 2007 zx6r
My premiums aren't bad, my cb360 is 40 dollars a year lol. My gsxr is 40/m because brand new/full coverage/loan/low deductible but I kind of expected that.

Anyways, running wide and stuff
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post #17 of 25 Old 04-17-2017, 11:45 AM
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Riding schools include insurance discounts? More info on that?
I meant this more in the case of road riding than a track school. In the UK, there's RoSPA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents) and the IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists). I don't think there's an insurance company anywhere in the UK that doesn't give a discount for IAM certification. In the USA, YMMV.

In many cases, what's applicable on the road (particularly with regard to paying attention to position - body and bike - as well as throttle control, braking, planning, etc) is every bit as applicable on the track.

What happens on track occurs faster, but then you equally don't have to worry about ignorant car drivers, wet leaves, pot holes, lamp posts... not to mention traffic coming in the other direction. The only truck you have to worry about at a track is one in the paddock that's fitting your tyres. I turned my nose up at first thinking it was all reflective Sam Browne belts and 'don't you dare exceed 2mph less than the posted limit', but it really isn't.

My dream was to do the Isle of Man TT, but life steered me in a direction short of gaining my ACU National license... and a sh*tload of sponsorship money.

At the end of the day, knowledge is power. The knowledge in your head is worth more than brake horsepower.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #18 of 25 Old 04-17-2017, 08:03 PM
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I Ride: 2011 ZX6R a.k.a. the beast. 2012 Ninja 650 a.k.a. Bambi after that unfortunate incident with a deer
One of the things I realize is my bike has a lot more talent than I do. The bike's capabilities far exceed mine which in a way is a serious comfort to me. If I get in trouble by going into a corner too hot I know I can just lean it and survive. This is also a valuable learning experience for me; I learn something about the bike and I learn that I can drive it harder. My first experience with this was on my Ninja 650. As a newbie I went in to a corner too hot for my comfort level and just tipped in and the bike got me through the corner. (I learned the less input I have in to the bike the better. It knows how to handle the corner better than I do.) As I grew in confidence with the bike I started pushing harder. I started experiencing front end slides and rear end slides and I learned how to control them. Then I bought a 2011 ZX6R. Same thing applies. The bike has more talent than I do. The less input I give it the better. My "balls" < " the bikes ability" which means if I get in trouble on this bike I should just go for it and learn a lesson. (I'm not that close to the bike limits.) The other thing I consider is that I'm willing to take a low-side vs. a hide side. If I'm seriously in trouble I'll just pin is and take the low side crash.

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post #19 of 25 Old 04-17-2017, 10:25 PM
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At the track you should know if you're going to run wide before you even hit the apex (either because you are going faster in to the corner or off your line), if this is the case I just trail brake later in to the corner and get on the gas a little later.
In terms of "using all of the track"- you should be aiming to do this all of the time (**not necessarily appropriate for every corner at every track), not just when you make a mistake
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post #20 of 25 Old 04-18-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Elijah View Post
One of the things I realize is my bike has a lot more talent than I do. The bike's capabilities far exceed mine which in a way is a serious comfort to me. If I get in trouble by going into a corner too hot I know I can just lean it and survive. This is also a valuable learning experience for me; I learn something about the bike and I learn that I can drive it harder. My first experience with this was on my Ninja 650. As a newbie I went in to a corner too hot for my comfort level and just tipped in and the bike got me through the corner. (I learned the less input I have in to the bike the better. It knows how to handle the corner better than I do.) As I grew in confidence with the bike I started pushing harder. I started experiencing front end slides and rear end slides and I learned how to control them. Then I bought a 2011 ZX6R. Same thing applies. The bike has more talent than I do. The less input I give it the better. My "balls" < " the bikes ability" which means if I get in trouble on this bike I should just go for it and learn a lesson. (I'm not that close to the bike limits.) The other thing I consider is that I'm willing to take a low-side vs. a hide side. If I'm seriously in trouble I'll just pin is and take the low side crash.
1. The bike ALWAYS knows better than you. I'd say the same is true of Marquez, Rossi, Doohan or any other rider.
2. A low-side is always better than a high-side. Bitter experience of both has taught me that.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #21 of 25 Old 04-18-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by the prophet View Post
You're doing it wrong......
Your blunder started much earlier than the turn in point for you running wide (the 'collective you' applies, here). To paraphrase what's been said prior:"... You go where you look... . But that's not the complete answer, I'd bet (no way to prove/disprove) your lane positioning was not correct... You were too far inside.

You ought to approach from the outside of the turn. Keep your chin level with the horizon - that's why your head is atop a ball-n-socket arrangement... Look precisely where you want to go (at virtually all times)... Have at least the inside butt cheek hanging off the saddle. Turn in much later than you think... and flick the bike in harder... This will result in a much faster turn... Push right go right, push left go left... You need to lean the bike more than you think you are, the bike is more than capable, you most likely will be a long way from touching anything down. ( Have a friend follow you through a complex of corners and film you - you'll be blown away by the lack of lean you utilize.)

This then allows you to roll on the throttle much earlier... Which in turn means you must physically lift the bike so as to roll the tires up on the fatter section of the tire where there's more traction (read: stability).

Repeat ad nauseum.

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post #22 of 25 Old 04-18-2017, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedExMuse View Post
Your blunder started much earlier than the turn in point for you running wide (the 'collective you' applies, here). To paraphrase what's been said prior:"... You go where you look... . But that's not the complete answer, I'd bet (no way to prove/disprove) your lane positioning was not correct... You were too far inside.

You ought to approach from the outside of the turn. Keep your chin level with the horizon - that's why your head is atop a ball-n-socket arrangement... Look precisely where you want to go (at virtually all times)... Have at least the inside butt cheek hanging off the saddle. Turn in much later than you think... and flick the bike in harder... This will result in a much faster turn... Push right go right, push left go left... You need to lean the bike more than you think you are, the bike is more than capable, you most likely will be a long way from touching anything down. ( Have a friend follow you through a complex of corners and film you - you'll be blown away by the lack of lean you utilize.)

This then allows you to roll on the throttle much earlier... Which in turn means you must physically lift the bike so as to roll the tires up on the fatter section of the tire where there's more traction (read: stability).

Repeat ad nauseum.
It also helps that on most tracks, there are markers not only on the inside of the curve at the apex, but on the outside line preceding it. Unless you're trying to block someone from coming up your inside line by outbraking you, this should be your indicator as to where to be when lining up for approach to the corner. There's a reason why there are nice dark patches from tyres at those points. It's a braking and positioning marker, and not just for decoration. Not only is the far outside line on approach going to give you a better turn-in for juuuuust clipping that apex nice and tight, it'll give you more grip for braking (so you can turn in later) and be the best line in terms of lineup for the apex and then lifting the bike to really jam on that power on exit.

The only exceptions - apart from blocking a competitor from trying to come up the inside - is if the camber is different across the surface on approach (There really aren't many corners I've traversed that have that as a "feature". It's usually something crappy to discover after a corner gets resurfaced in the off season) or if you're on a ridiculously wide track - like something used in truck racing - where the excess makes it slower to use the full width.

P.S. - This works for every capacity (250 2T to 1000cc fours) and riding style.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #23 of 25 Old 04-19-2017, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Twistee View Post
Not only is the far outside line on approach going to give you a better turn-in for juuuuust clipping that apex nice and tight, it'll give you more grip for braking (so you can turn in later) and be the best line in terms of lineup for the apex and then lifting the bike to really jam on that power on exit.

The only exceptions - apart from blocking a competitor from trying to come up the inside - is if the camber is different across the surface on approach (There really aren't many corners I've traversed that have that as a "feature". It's usually something crappy to discover after a corner gets resurfaced in the off season) or if you're on a ridiculously wide track - like something used in truck racing - where the excess makes it slower to use the full width.

P.S. - This works for every capacity (250 2T to 1000cc fours) and riding style.


The other exception that I regularly utilise is: Very tight (1st or 2nd gear) consecutive 90°-ish (±) corners, where you know (experience/clear sight lines) the latter opens up to a long-ish chute (straight). I'll set up with the "wrong cheek off the wrong side of the saddle going into the 1st turn. This sets one up for a faster transition coming out of the latter turn, going into the straight with a much higher mph through the entire straight. You literally ride it MX-style by "lifting" the bars off the inside of T1 & slamming it down into the inside of 2T. Often one can pull a full bike length (or 2) each lap utilising this technique.
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post #24 of 25 Old 04-19-2017, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ZedExMuse View Post
The other exception that I regularly utilise is: Very tight (1st or 2nd gear) consecutive 90°-ish (±) corners, where you know (experience/clear sight lines) the latter opens up to a long-ish chute (straight). I'll set up with the "wrong cheek off the wrong side of the saddle going into the 1st turn. This sets one up for a faster transition coming out of the latter turn, going into the straight with a much higher mph through the entire straight. You literally ride it MX-style by "lifting" the bars off the inside of T1 & slamming it down into the inside of 2T. Often one can pull a full bike length (or 2) each lap utilising this technique.
This does work well for a chicane like you describe. Peel in to flatten the first curve the "wrong way" to gain fuller drive out of the second to maximise acceleration down the straight. Even if the latter corner is blind, position and watching as far ahead as you can - coupled with experience of that corner - will see you with the most traction and the best line.

Pressure through the pegs and really wrenching the bars makes a real snap to catching that late approach to the apex, and keep things in tight.
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-------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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post #25 of 25 Old 04-20-2017, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedExMuse View Post
The other exception that I regularly utilise is: Very tight (1st or 2nd gear) consecutive 90°-ish (±) corners, where you know (experience/clear sight lines) the latter opens up to a long-ish chute (straight). I'll set up with the "wrong cheek off the wrong side of the saddle going into the 1st turn. This sets one up for a faster transition coming out of the latter turn, going into the straight with a much higher mph through the entire straight. You literally ride it MX-style by "lifting" the bars off the inside of T1 & slamming it down into the inside of 2T. Often one can pull a full bike length (or 2) each lap utilising this technique.
I can't say that I've ever ridden the circuit (I would love to though), but the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca seems like the exact type of chicanery to which this would apply well.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The best advice I ever received was "Just look pretty and try not to break anything."

1999 ZX6R (G2) - Pipewerx exhaust (dB killer removed) | Dynojet Stage 1 | K&N air filter | flushmount front LED indicators | Clear LED tail light with integrated indicators | Scottoiler eSystem | Pyramid Plastics hugger | HID headlight | Stubby levers | HEL braided steel lines | 07 ZX6R radial master cylinder | Bar-end mirrors | Double-bubble screen | Crash bobbins | one hell of an anal-retentive owner.
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