Should naked bikes replace sportbikes in racing? - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Should naked bikes replace sportbikes in racing?

The Rise and Fall of Sportbikes, Peter Jones Bike Life | Cycle World

Interesting perspective, but I am not sure this will help increase interest in MotoAmerica.
Thoughts?
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 08:36 AM
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I don't know how much I agree with that. Racing only drives sales when people are actually interested in racing, so putting a bunch of naked bikes out there isn't going to change anything as far as I'm concerned.

The real problem we've got is that motorsports in general are dying. All at a different pace, but they're dying none the less. Jetski racing was MASSIVE in the late 90s. It's been on the way down ever since. When I was a kid having a dirtbike was a huge deal, these days having a xbox 1 or ps4 is a bigger deal. People these days don't even know how to drive a standard transmission, and cars are all soulless drive by wire turds anyways.

People aren't being turned on to mechanical things anymore. Cars, motorcycles, boats, etc all seem to be appealing to less and less people. If you're looking at the plastics on a bike and blaming them for declining sales then you're missing the forest through the trees IMO.
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 09:04 AM
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Motorcycle sales have been pretty much flat (in the US) for quite some time. Decades.

the perception of the vast majority of persons who could potentially ride is that there is very little benefit to doing so. the things bikes do well, we cannot advertise -- acceleration and handling claims, are portents of lawsuits.

Economy is boring.... even if a 250cc four stroke motorcycle will get more than 70 MPG, costs very little to purchase and will still outrun the average economy box car.... just not sexy enough.

Honda has release a whole series of 500 CC twins that are extremely economical to operate -- sales of what should be a brilliant compromise piece spanning every desirable trait two wheeled transportation should have are not strong.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 10:14 AM
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This was mentioned in another thread. My opinion still hasn't changed. I'll race anything with 2 wheels an an IC engine, but I'd rather not see naked bikes replace the real supersports and superbikes.
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 10:17 AM
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I don't know how much I agree with that. Racing only drives sales when people are actually interested in racing, so putting a bunch of naked bikes out there isn't going to change anything as far as I'm concerned.

The real problem we've got is that motorsports in general are dying. All at a different pace, but they're dying none the less. Jetski racing was MASSIVE in the late 90s. It's been on the way down ever since. When I was a kid having a dirtbike was a huge deal, these days having a xbox 1 or ps4 is a bigger deal. People these days don't even know how to drive a standard transmission, and cars are all soulless drive by wire turds anyways.

People aren't being turned on to mechanical things anymore. Cars, motorcycles, boats, etc all seem to be appealing to less and less people. If you're looking at the plastics on a bike and blaming them for declining sales then you're missing the forest through the trees IMO.
Well fuckin said!!
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 10:40 AM
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I only own a ZX6, but I agree that modern sport bikes are basically stupid on the street. The technology has come so far that it is basically impossible to ever really reach the limits of a supersport on the street. If you have, you have found a good stretch of road that is very rare or you aren't going to live long. More than likely, you just don't realize what the true potential of the bike is because your talent is no where near what the bike needs. (Myself included). If I had unlimited space and funds, I would have a street triple for the street and a supersport bike to track. I tried taking my z1000 to the track. It was super fun till I started putting down faster lap times. After that, it was just exhausting. The traits that make make a bike fun for the street involve a more upright posture, slightly shorter wheelbase and good midrange power. If you want to ride the track, that bike will be twitchy with no front end feel and power delivery that is less than ideal.
I like to ride on the track. Realistically, that puts me in a small percentage of people within the small percentage of people that actually ride motorcycles. A new sport triple is more of a sport bike than the race bikes that came out in the 80's. Therefore that sport triple is going to be more bike than your average biker will ever be able to use. It would make sense that manufacturers will cater to that majority instead of the super small percentage of people that will even attempt to reach the limits of a bike on the track.
On the other hand, most would not say that it is just as much fun to watch people racing a grom instead of a Moto GP bike. Watching the best technology and riders that the planet can produce instills a sense of interest that can't be duplicated. High school football is fun. It doesn't match a pro game with the huge stadium, professionals paid to be 400lbs of muscle, the best gear, and every camera angle imaginable.
I reject the notion that people still try to buy the bikes they see the elite racers on. I can still try to be Rossi on a street triple. His sport bike isn't anything like my sport bike anyway. I just want to go fast and feel cool.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalcrew View Post
I don't know how much I agree with that. Racing only drives sales when people are actually interested in racing, so putting a bunch of naked bikes out there isn't going to change anything as far as I'm concerned.

The real problem we've got is that motorsports in general are dying. All at a different pace, but they're dying none the less. Jetski racing was MASSIVE in the late 90s. It's been on the way down ever since. When I was a kid having a dirtbike was a huge deal, these days having a xbox 1 or ps4 is a bigger deal. People these days don't even know how to drive a standard transmission, and cars are all soulless drive by wire turds anyways.

People aren't being turned on to mechanical things anymore. Cars, motorcycles, boats, etc all seem to be appealing to less and less people. If you're looking at the plastics on a bike and blaming them for declining sales then you're missing the forest through the trees IMO.
Agreed!

This new generation is a bunch of sorry ass, emotionally weak, caramel latte sipping fuckin snowflakes. Sometimes I just look at them and think to myself.....man, the future of our country is fuckin doomed. I cant stand em.
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 02:03 PM
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Agreed!

This new generation is a bunch of sorry ass, emotionally weak, caramel latte sipping fuckin snowflakes. Sometimes I just look at them and think to myself.....man, the future of our country is fuckin doomed. I cant stand em.
The longer you live, the more disconnected you will feel from whatever the 'mainstream' becomes while you were busy having a life. After a while, you get to the point where you realize that you couldn't care less where the herd is going.

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 02:19 PM
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The longer you live, the more disconnected you will feel from whatever the 'mainstream' becomes while you were busy having a life. After a while, you get to the point where you realize that you couldn't care less where the herd is going.
Yep...funny thing is I'm still very much on the young side of the spectrum. I've always said that I was born about 10-15 years too late

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post #10 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 03:41 PM
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And here i am, thinking about bike sales and how banks/ economical crisis affected them.
Seems it's a worldwide phenomenon after all.

I have many friends wanting to get a new liter bike, but banks don't issue loans anymore, you have to provide proof that you can make in a year 3 times the price of a new bike. Then...what is the point of getting a loan?

There are no used bikes for sale made from 2012 and later.

And since new liter bikes have made a huge jump in pricetags ( some years ago you could get a new liter bike for around 15k €, now they are over 20k €), old used don't depreciate over time.

And last, mega scooters...With aftermarket exhausts , customized...and way more comfy than a supersport.

All these together are slowly killing the supersport market here.

About the naked bike races. Something like this?
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 03:50 PM
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Yep...funny thing is I'm still very much on the young side of the spectrum. I've always said that I was born about 10-15 years too late
That makes us about the same age then. I've been told the same thing.

Naked bikes have already been raced in AMA with the XR1200 and in Europe there's the z1000 cup. They could just add the class to the current classes.

Martillo y Mantequilla #99
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-17-2017, 04:43 PM
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And here i am, thinking about bike sales and how banks/ economical crisis affected them.
Seems it's a worldwide phenomenon after all.

I have many friends wanting to get a new liter bike, but banks don't issue loans anymore, you have to provide proof that you can make in a year 3 times the price of a new bike. Then...what is the point of getting a loan?

There are no used bikes for sale made from 2012 and later.

And since new liter bikes have made a huge jump in pricetags ( some years ago you could get a new liter bike for around 15k €, now they are over 20k €), old used don't depreciate over time.

And last, mega scooters...With aftermarket exhausts , customized...and way more comfy than a supersport.

All these together are slowly killing the supersport market here.

About the naked bike races. Something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJKf7nK6n30
Motorcycles should not cost more than about half of what a car does for a given level of performance.

We have very high expectations, which are far greater than what we actually need.

Its always struck me as the height of stupidity for someone to buy a cruiser, and try and get more performance out of it...... buy a bike that was designed for that, instead of messing up a perfectly good bike designed for something else.

If people were willing to accept a certain level of weight and performance, at a certain price point -- with the option of buying more bolt on power if they felt froggy..... wouldn't that make the whole process a lot less painful?

1,000,000 years ago (in my youth), there were tons and tons of bikes which had anywhere from 15-50 HP, and they were STILL considered death machines.

NOTHING built in 1960 could touch my now 8 year old, out of tune ZX6.

Would it be better, if a tiered licensing approach were applied like it is almost anywhere else in the world? Would that get people started on those smaller, lighter, cheap to operate FUN machines?

I always see a few people riding 50cc two stroke scooters, because there are almost no legal requirements placed on them. No license required here in the US. That's a breeding ground for potential future riders......

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-18-2017, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aodrn View Post
I only own a ZX6, but I agree that modern sport bikes are basically stupid on the street. The technology has come so far that it is basically impossible to ever really reach the limits of a supersport in first gearon the street.
FTFY
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-18-2017, 06:58 AM
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Stupid article IMO. F1 racing is the most popular racing series in the world, but I don't see any F1 inspired cars driving around. People want to see the best you can put forward. That's not naked bikes.
-Cody
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post #15 of 21 Old 05-18-2017, 07:30 AM
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naked bikes are for the street which is the whole point.

racing bikes have fairing and hence we have super/sport bikes, they are bred for racing and vice verca.

naked bikes were built for the road hence why the tend to be better on the street day to day. as soon as you start racing a bike the road bikes change to make them more suited for the track and in turn less suited for the road.
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