Crash Video - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexZX6R View Post
Sorry. You are wrong.
it's an opinion; he can't be wrong.
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post #17 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 06:22 AM
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damn that really sucks dude. Glad you were relatively okay and healed up. You were going way too fast for those traffic conditions though; I saw your speedo between 52 and 59, and continued at a similar speed into the denser traffic. Don't get me wrong, I think lane splitting is a good thing UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES, but you always need to be watching for precisely that situation. Had you been going half the speed you'd have most likely noticed his flasher and had more time to slow down. I would never lane split quicker than 20-30km/h, being in the middle of two lanes with so many chances of that happening. Regardless of who was deemed at fault, use this as a learning experience and continuously improve those riding skills!
This. Lane splitting can be as safe as you make it. When you're tripling the speed of the traffic you're riding in, stuff like this will happen.
-Cody
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post #18 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexZX6R View Post
Sorry. You are wrong.
If you are open to an intellectual debate on the subject, I would love to hear how we can safely expect a driver of a car to change lanes in traffic moving 20mph when there is a motorcycle coming around a turn (out of mirror view) and between lanes at 40mph?
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post #19 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by IronCactus View Post
I don't want to see anyone crash. But if you play stupid games, you will win stupid prizes. Right or wrong that cager had its signal on with intentions clearly made. Remember YOU are invisible at any speed and should ride with that understanding. Everything is your fault on a motorcycle - even when it is not your fault. We pay for our mistakes and everyone else's with our blood and sometimes our lives for simply being out there. I'm glad you were not seriously injured.
THIS^^^

I'm going to be candid and honest instead of blowing smoke as well. Having lived in Thailand, I am used to lane splitting but lane splitting is always done at slow speeds or at near standstills. The point of lane splitting is to prevent getting rear ended. As a rider, it seems like we tend to like to blame the cars but really, the fault is USUALLY on the rider except for the dreaded left turn.

As noted by the video, you were going much faster than the flow of traffic, it may just be a glare as you noted but from where I stand, I saw his turn signals on and you obviously were not paying any attention either. You may say "he didn't look for me" but you are the smaller of the two and he's in front, way bigger than you, and moving at what was likely no more than 10 mph when you guys collided and you didn't even swerve just a little bit which tells us it's obvious you didn't see him either and that's at near stand still speed. You missed a car moving at 10mph and while you may say the lane change was unsafe, he never left his lane and you kept going straight without a hint of slowing down or even swerving to avoid the collision.

Some accidents aren't preventable but an accident like this one was clearly avoidable and while you or the insurance company may want to put more of the onus on the driver, but as riders, we need to take responsibility when we are at fault as well. It's not 80/20 or even 50/50 here in my opinion. Wait, yea I can see it as 80/20 with the 80 being you, the motorcyclist.

Anyhow, I hope you ride more careful/defensive and this is the only accident you ever get in. Never good seeing a rider go down but some riders go down numerous times because they don't see that they are the ones at fault, or more at fault for the accident, and thus continue riding the same way. For example saying the issue isn't that you were going too fast for the environment, or blaming it on the driver for not seeing you and totally ignoring the fact that you clearly didn't see him either when he was in a vehicle 10 times bigger than you, and then blaming that his unsafe lane change was the biggest factor in the crash. Those of us who have made it without an accident (although it's almost inevitable that it will happen) is because we ride defensively, especially when there are cars around. If you are not looking out for you, it's very unlikely anyone else is either.

Scariest part about lane splitting like that or at higher speeds is if you get clipped in traffic, you can very well get run over and when you wake, you don't get to say hi to doctor but to someone called your maker. GL man and be safe.

PS, the traffic is near a standstill and right before the OP crashes, you can see him glance down just a bit and his speedometer is 43mph. For lane splitting, you are to be going within 10mph of the flow of traffic. Not exactly safe speeds.

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post #20 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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I was slowing down at the same time for the traffic ahead. Yes, obviously I was going a little fast, this keeps gettings regurgitated. The car could easily see me, you can even see the guy's face in the mirror before he turns.

I went too fast, he made a unsafe and dangerous lane change without even looking. I'm surprised how hostile a motorcycle forum is to motorcycle riding. The law and insurance company both believe that turning without looking is more negligent than going fast for conditions. Now maybe if I had blown through at 65 MPH, then yes, that's gross negligence on my part.
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post #21 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 11:12 AM
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It's not about being hostile man! We are just looking out for one of our own. If my friends see me ride like a jackass or unsafe, they speak up, they would call me out on it!

The facts are the facts and you were simply going too quickly for the traffic conditions. Hell you came on so quick the guy would have never had enough time to check his mirror, see you, then react. I would have probably not seen you either and I am meticulous when it comes to checking blind spots.

Wether insurance or local police say you are at fault or not, none of that will matter if you die. It's for your own safety is all. In that situation, with the number of cars you are passing, the chance that ONE will change lanes abruptly is incredibly high. At the speed you are going, your chances of avoidance are slim to none; you are basically setting yourself up to be in an accident. If it wasn't him, it most likely would have been another car further ahead. 43MPH is insanely quick in that traffic condition. You cannot react fast enough to consider that riding safe.
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post #22 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
I was slowing down at the same time for the traffic ahead. Yes, obviously I was going a little fast, this keeps gettings regurgitated. The car could easily see me, you can even see the guy's face in the mirror before he turns.

I went too fast, he made a unsafe and dangerous lane change without even looking. I'm surprised how hostile a motorcycle forum is to motorcycle riding. The law and insurance company both believe that turning without looking is more negligent than going fast for conditions. Now maybe if I had blown through at 65 MPH, then yes, that's gross negligence on my part.
well if you are so certain, turn in the video to the cops and your insurance company and his..........see where that gets you

You are the negligent party in this instance and it is 100% your fault
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #23 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 11:23 AM
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^ what he said. Not hostile at all, just trying to keep my two wheeled brethren from becoming meat patties.
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post #24 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 11:23 AM
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I would suggest not showing that video to any insurance company as evidence that the drive was at fault.

And just one point, you make the assumption that he was looking for you when he checked his mirror. It would take me years to adjust to lane splitting if I moved to California. Since it's the only state in the US that allows it. I've driven 35 years where it's illegal to do that. When I check my mirrors, I see cars behind me and in the lane next to me. I see plenty of room for me to change lanes. Right now, I would never even consider that someone might be coming in between those cars. You assume that everyone is accustomed to it but in fact only California drivers are accustomed to it. He may have been visiting California and in a rental car. You don't know and can't figure it out in time at those speeds. There is a reason why the other 49 states don't think this is safe enough to allow it.
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post #25 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 11:30 AM
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Lol, this guy. Because nearly all of us disagree and say that you were more at fault, if not almost entirely at fault, we are being hostile? Not single person yelling or saying anything derogatory but more looking out for your well being. If you think that is hostile, you must be off in la la land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
The car could easily see me...I went too fast, he made a unsafe and dangerous lane change without even looking.
You know what you conveniently exclude? You keep saying he made an unsafe lane change by not checking over his shoulder/mirrors and that he could easily see you yet you also prove that you did not see the car doing the lane change either and you had more than ample time not to mention he was in a vehicle 10x larger than you. Not a single evasive maneuver which proves you didn't even see that car moving at 5-10mph slowly switching lanes. As mentioned before, the car didn't even cross into the other lane yet, it was still in its lane when it/you struck each other. You keep harping that the driver didn't check its mirrors because it should've seen you yet where does your fault lie? I mean, if a car could see a 400lb bike, yet you couldn't spot a 3,500lb car slowly move into the other lane? You see how that works? You keep saying the car can see you yet you didn't see the car?

Sorry man, if you want a "Fuck those cagers", you are on the wrong forum. We are motorcyclists, we look out for each other, help each other with big things and small things, but we will not stand by and say good job to you when you are clearly at fault. Sorry..wait I'm not sorry for calling a spade a spade.

Again, it is when we refuse to see and acknowledge the entire spectrum that we are doomed to repeat it again. Good luck man, not sorry for being honest but still don't want to see another dead rider.
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post #26 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 12:06 PM
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This was totally avoidable, but I'm gonna have to agree and say that you were going a bit too fast. And btw, this is coming from someone who lane splits every single day.

I'm not sure what your riding experience is, but that crash was avoidable on so many different levels...

For one, if you see an open space next to the car you are about to pass, always assume he is going to fill that space...

You must strategically time your passes. Obviously two cars next to each other have nowhere to go but straight, so always be weary of any space where a car might fit and change lanes.

I see dudes on bikes lane splitting way too fast every day, and its only a matter of time before something similar happens. Splitting lanes isn't about allowing motorcycles to barrel down the highway at any speed they want or to be reckless... Its a huge privilege and convenience to be able to do so legally, yet so many abuse it and makes it appear to the other states as unsafe, which it really isn't as long as you're lane splitting SAFELY and the RIGHT WAY.

There is a reason why lane splitting is a practice adopted and accepted all over the world except the US, which has such a backwards way of thinking sometimes. Lane splitting is illegal in every other state but its not illegal to not wear a helmet? OoooK.
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post #27 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexZX6R View Post
Sorry. You are wrong.
In this case Alex we agree for once.

To the OP, I split lanes everyday like Mr. Jperez and I think he hit the nail on the head. You were going a tad quick considering the speed of surrounding traffic and you gotta expect where there is a hole, someone usually wants to fill it. They will often do it quickly and unpredictably.

I didn't think you were too far out of line though. I see motorcycle cops splitting faster than this every friggin' day of the week. Just kick it down a notch and you'll be fine. Glad you were mostly okay.

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post #28 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
well if you are so certain, turn in the video to the cops and your insurance company and his..........see where that gets you

You are the negligent party in this instance and it is 100% your fault
I respect your knowledge and age but disagree that I'm 100% at fault. CHP and insurance saw my videos. They settled at accepting 80% liability.

This accident was avoidable. If I had slowed down sooner, been mindful of the open gap on the right, not been riding while drowsy or distracted etc... all contributing factors. Hitting the ground was a good wake up call to not get comfortable in traffic just because I was fine daily for 6+ months.

I've started taking BART to work since I decided it's more convenient to take 10-15 minutes longer to work each way, and be able to sit/stand and read the whole time.. then try to fight through parking lots of traffic and angry drivers on a supersport :/ and being extra prudent about not going more than 10+ over the other cars, still left me with at least a 40-45 minute commute usually it seemed. Then I end up getting passed by squids, angry bikers even, and CHP motorcycle cops that like to blow by traffic when splitting (of course they can get away with it, magically the seas part when they see those CHP stickers)
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post #29 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PainfullySlo View Post
^ what he said. Not hostile at all, just trying to keep my two wheeled brethren from becoming meat patties.
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Originally Posted by NatBrown View Post
I would suggest not showing that video to any insurance company as evidence that the drive was at fault.

And just one point, you make the assumption that he was looking for you when he checked his mirror. It would take me years to adjust to lane splitting if I moved to California. Since it's the only state in the US that allows it. I've driven 35 years where it's illegal to do that. When I check my mirrors, I see cars behind me and in the lane next to me. I see plenty of room for me to change lanes. Right now, I would never even consider that someone might be coming in between those cars. You assume that everyone is accustomed to it but in fact only California drivers are accustomed to it. He may have been visiting California and in a rental car. You don't know and can't figure it out in time at those speeds. There is a reason why the other 49 states don't think this is safe enough to allow it.
Thanks.

Yes Nat that may be right. (He is a CA driver though, and a pretty shady individual. Lied to CHP and/or insurance and also dodged multiple phone calls for a week from my insurance company.)

The tides seem to be turning in favor of lane splitting. Just legalized down under... coming to a few states soon it seems. We just have to be ever vigilant.
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post #30 of 34 Old 09-30-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gawernator View Post
Then I end up getting passed by squids, angry bikers even, and CHP motorcycle cops that like to blow by traffic when splitting (of course they can get away with it, magically the seas part when they see those CHP stickers)
Let em' pass. I get caught by faster motorcycles everyday. Doesn't discourage me from riding to work. My commute would be close to 2 hours by car and at sane lane splitting speeds it's just under an hour.

I would not quit riding to work because of this if I were you.
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