High Side + Guardrail - Page 3 - ZX6R Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 04-05-2016, 07:20 AM
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Actually, a person has a significantly smaller mass than a bike (for most people), meaning that a person's momentum is vastly less than a bike at the same slide speed. Thus, a person (whether wearing cow or sliding on skin) will slow down much much FASTER than a sliding bike will. I can attest to this as I had a low side a while back where I ended up 20 meters from a curb when the bike's tire bumped that curve. Now, I'm not saying it's ever good to intentionally lay a bike down, but you WILL slow down faster than the bike does.
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post #32 of 56 Old 04-05-2016, 07:22 AM
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Actually, a person has a significantly smaller mass than a bike (for most people), meaning that a person's momentum is vastly less than a bike at the same slide speed. Thus, a person (whether wearing cow or sliding on skin) will slow down much much slower than a sliding bike will. I can attest to this as I had a low side a while back where I ended up 20 meters from a curb when the bike's tire bumped that curve. Now, I'm not saying it's ever good to intentionally lay a bike down, but you WILL slow down faster than the bike does.
You've actually stated your argument backwards.....you will deaccelerate at a greater rate than the bike, due to the difference in mass, and potentially coefficient of friction..... either way, the bike wearing away is a far better survival technique than sacrificing skin and bone for a minor change.

I say minor, due to the fact that in any street situation I can think of, the bike and ride will almost certainly impact SOMETHING before they come to rest due to friction alone.

Tracks have huge amounts of run off area for this very reason.

Staying on top of the bike, and executing an exit strategy which does not include impact as a component...... priceless.
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post #33 of 56 Old 04-05-2016, 07:26 AM
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post #34 of 56 Old 04-05-2016, 07:08 PM
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I watched your low side too, it wasn't the gravel that took you out... why do people always blame gravel? I've gone over gravel half a hundred times, wiggled a little and kept going.

Track may be 5-6 hours away but I'd take a trip to it and really learn how to RIDE a motorcycle. Learn to control it and let it control itself, they actually like being on two wheels, physics
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post #35 of 56 Old 04-05-2016, 08:36 PM
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I watched your low side too, it wasn't the gravel that took you out... why do people always blame gravel? I've gone over gravel half a hundred times, wiggled a little and kept going.

Track may be 5-6 hours away but I'd take a trip to it and really learn how to RIDE a motorcycle. Learn to control it and let it control itself, they actually like being on two wheels, physics
Quiz: what do you do when you ride over a manhole cover and your front wheel starts to slide?

A: Do nothing

Quiz: what do you do when you ride over a manhole cover and your rear wheel starts to slide?

A: Do nothing
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post #36 of 56 Old 04-05-2016, 11:45 PM
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I would go back and beat the shit outta that manwhore.

Oh...wait...
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post #37 of 56 Old 04-06-2016, 02:26 AM
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Quiz: what do you do when you ride over a manhole cover and your front wheel starts to slide?

A: Do nothing

Quiz: what do you do when you ride over a manhole cover and your rear wheel starts to slide?

A: Do nothing
To quote an old book, "Fear is the mind killer."
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post #38 of 56 Old 04-06-2016, 05:32 AM
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Emergency braking is part of getting the license for a motorcycle here in Denmark - but yeah keep practising, is always a good advice for any rider.

Like one of the interviewed from the movie "Why We Ride" says:

"There is 2 types of riders. One that has been riding for 20 years and one that has been for 5 years. The dude riding for 20 years has one year of experience cause he keeps doing the same types of roads or even the same route over and over. Whereas the guy with 5 years of riding has experience it all, different types of roads, trackdays, educationalcourses on this and that. Point is you can always learn and develeop"
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post #39 of 56 Old 04-06-2016, 04:18 PM
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ANow, I'm not saying it's ever good to intentionally lay a bike down, but you WILL slow down faster than the bike does.
Not faster than a bike still on its tyres.
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post #40 of 56 Old 04-30-2016, 10:12 AM
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Any pictures of the wrecked bike? I'm curious to see any frame slider damage.
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post #41 of 56 Old 04-30-2016, 10:44 AM
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post #42 of 56 Old 04-30-2016, 11:29 AM
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Well...think of it this way: Lets say theres a car taking a turn too fast and its gonna crash into the wall. Would u rather be strapped to the hood of the car or strapped to the trunk?

Id rather be on the trunk. My body will have the same momentum regardless, but this way I would be using the car as the "shock absorber" to cushion my impact.
If you figure out how little the difference is, I think you'd reconsider this. The only difference to your internal organs, and bones in the scenario you describe is how fine the paste that was your body will be.

The crumple zones on a car are designed to absorb about 10 MPH of kinetic energy/foot 1 foot crunched in car, it hit at about 10 MPH.... 2 feet= 20, 3 = 30 etc. The car crumples, because there's about 3,000 lbs of mass involved. When the car comes to a stop, and you hit the trunk...... you don't have the mass to make the car crumple in.

The only differential in speed would be how much the nose of the car crumpling slows down before chassis you hit the back. If you are both doing 60, and the car hits a cliff and stops completely.... you're hitting the trunk at 60. 88 feet per second.

For a general reference on what that sort of speed means--- if you jump out of a second story window, you will hit the ground at 25 MPH. 36 feet per second.

Jump off a 100 foot tall building. You'll hit the ground at about 60 MPH.

As they say, it's not the fall that kills you; it's the sudden stop at the end.

Personal 'crumple zones' are limited to being useful over speeds that nature could expect people to hit -- 10-14 MPH.

Best not to hit anything, going faster than that.

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post #43 of 56 Old 04-30-2016, 12:51 PM
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The crumple zones on a car are designed to absorb about 10 MPH of kinetic energy/foot 1 foot crunched in car, it hit at about 10 MPH.... 2 feet= 20, 3 = 30 etc. The car crumples, because there's about 3,000 lbs of mass involved. When the car comes to a stop, and you hit the trunk...... you don't have the mass to make the car crumple in.

The only differential in speed would be how much the nose of the car crumpling slows down before chassis you hit the back. If you are both doing 60, and the car hits a cliff and stops completely.... you're hitting the trunk at 60. 88 feet per second.
Uuuh, so the argument used previously about strapped to the trunk or strapped to the hood is, honestly, pretty dumb.

Crumple zones are designed to reduce the sudden-ness of deceleration. If you stop from 60-0, it's the rapidity of the STOP that causes your brain to get all whacked about inside and all your organs to gank-up against the insides of your skeleton. A crumple zone allows that deceleration to happen slightly slower, but it only works because you're strapped into the inside of that box.

If you're on a bike, there's no 'gradual slowing' associated with the bike slamming into something before you do. There's no energy absorbed. There's you, travelling at 60MPH, then you stop. The fact that a bike smunched in front of you does not cause you to decelerate more gently, sorry.

No, laying the bike down is not ever better, it does not protect you, it does not cushion you.


Keep the bike on the rubber, use your brakes. Keep it up and on the brakes even if you're going to collide. Slow down as much as possible, then collide if it happens. This is the best way to bleed energy, and the best way to reduce your collision speed/force.

Never ride faster than you can stop
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post #44 of 56 Old 04-30-2016, 01:40 PM
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Any crumple zone in front of u is still a lot better than u taking a direct hit yourself.

U cant argue with that. Thats the point I was trying to make with being strapped to the front vs back of the car.
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post #45 of 56 Old 04-30-2016, 03:47 PM
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Any crumple zone in front of u is still a lot better than u taking a direct hit yourself.

U cant argue with that. Thats the point I was trying to make with being strapped to the front vs back of the car.
The only reliable crumple zone a rider has is their own body. Armor won't improve the situation by more than a very few MPH. No such thing as an Iron Man suit........Downey would have been thin layer of paste on the inside of the suit many times over.

Your heart, liver, lungs, kidneys, etc., all hang on a thread.... veins and such. Rip them free, and bleed out. 200 gee should do it. Your helmet protects you brain from about that....... which is generated by a vertical drop of 6 feet, onto concrete.

Take what chances you see fit. It's you choice.
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