Originally Posted by blazenorange

Ok Kevin.. I know that u know how to ride... But why do u not use ur rear brake?.. U race right?... Do u not use ur rear braking there either ?..

Originally Posted by Alex

I guess now's as good a time as any for a contrarian opinion, so here goes... If you really want to maximize emergency braking, i.e. get the absolute shortest stops when the fecal matter hits the rotating blade, forget about the rear brake. Not because it doesn't matter, but because its abilities are dwarfed by the effective use of the front brake, and if you're not doing that correctly nothing you do with the rear will help a whit anyway. Please stay with me before immediately rushing to post a retort...

The vast majority of motorcyclists don't use enough front brake in hard stops. There's the old habits and improper training angle, where prior generations were taught "Don't touch the front brake, it will spit you off if you even graze it.", and there's also the legacy that many older bikes had extremely poor braking systems in general, requiring a mammoth squeeze on both front and rear just to get any reasonable braking power. But on a modern bike, (and our Ninjette is one of those, even if it's on the less-expensive side), the front brake has enough power to stop the wheel almost immediately from any speed the ninjette is traveling, and the front tires if properly inflated and warmed up have enough grip to make use of that braking power. So how do you stop the quickest? You squeeze the lever firmly, and as the weight transfers to the front of the bike you can squeeze it firmer and firmer as the tire gets even better grip on the pavement. In a panic some riders are prone to grabbing at the lever too quickly, and locking up the front tire. This happens not because the tires are bad, or because the brakes aren't strong enough, but because the weight transfer wasn't allowed to happen sufficiently before maximum braking pressure was applied.

How hard can you ultimately push that front brake? Hard enough that the rear tire is barely skimming the ground behind you. Look at any reasonably competitive motorcycle race, whether 200-lb 125cc two-strokes all the way to 400-lb literbikes and get a good look at what is happening in the maximum braking sections of the track. The rear wheel is barely on the pavement, if it's touching at all. This isn't a style thing, it's because the rider is braking at the absolute limit, putting as much force as possible from the front brake down to the tire and ultimately to the pavement. If there was any more front brake used, the bike is liable to go end over end. If there was less used, the bike wouldn't slow as quickly as it is. When all of this is happening, what can the rear brake do to help slow the bike? Answer - not much. So much weight is naturally on the front of the bike, that any meaningful slowing by the rear wheel is going to have a marginal effect on stopping distances, and in non-expert hands (or feet, I guess), is more likely to just lock the wheel than provide any help.

So is the rear brake useless? No. In street situations it can make for a more confident stop in non emergency situations. When you are 2-up there is more weight on the rear and in some cases using a more balanced split between front and rear brake works out well. Do I use the rear brake much on the street? Sometimes. I want to get some wear into those pads back there, and it's good to develop a feel for where the lockup point is on the rear tire.

So IMO, if you're trying to stop in that shortest of distances before slamming the rear end of the vehicle in front of you, and you've already decided that swerving isn't an option, you need to get that front tire braking as quickly as possible as soon as possible, and hold it right up against that limit. It's my opinion that doing that correctly is hard enough in an emergency situation without trying to also balance the pressure on the rear brake, which if you're doing the first part correctly isn't going to do a heck of a lot of good. Only after someone has completely mastered being able to bring the front up to the point of lockup over and over again, barely skimming the rear tire along the pavement, then I'd agree that some rear braking skills on top of that can help. But even in those cases, it is mostly used to balance the bike's attitude rather than shortening the stopping distances from a high-speed stop in a straight line.

Are there exceptions to this? Sure. A heavy long-wheelbase bike may be brought to the limit of the front brake/wheel/tire/pavement interface, and the rear wheel may still be on the pavement. In that case some rear brake will be helpful in slowing such a bike. An older bike that has a weak brake system in general that can't bring the front tire to its limits quickly or confidently enough? Sure, rear brake can be used there. I found that on a Triumph Bonneville that we had for awhile with a particularly low-buck front brake system. But our ninjette is not one of those exceptions. Front brake is more than powerful enough, tires are sticky enough, wheelbase is short enough, that hard braking can be done to the extent that it will start to lift the rear. So if you're not braking hard enough to do so, then you're giving up precious feet in stopping distance. And this can be done without bottoming the front forks on the new-gen ninjette, if your weight is somewhere in the ballpark of what kawi was expecting on this bike. On the pre-gens it gets a little trickier only because the front springs are so soft, that to get better braking the first necessary step is to stiffen up the front. On the 2nd-gens that will only be necessary as rider weight gets up there. Heck, to my knowledge the RaceBikeRentals trackbikes don't have stiffer springs up front, and they can be brought to max braking without bouncing off the stops with correct technique.

The problem with all this is that practicing it in a parking lot at 25 mph isn't particularly instructive. You may even convince yourself that a balance between front/rear brakes is the way to go for such a stop as it feels better, and there just isn't enough weight transfer to matter at those lower speeds. But when we're talking about higher speed (60+ mph) emergency stops, everything written above applies more and more.



Sorry for the novel, but this can be an interesting discussion, and I'm not sure if we've had it yet on this board...

Originally Posted by ZXNasty

Dude, I want those like now. On the site it has different heel guards in the pictures, but I like the ones you got. Is there a way to specify which ones?

Originally Posted by oKayH

Those don't look bad at all. Your swingarm confused me for a second but I realized you have the axel in backwards compared to factory. Any reason or just threw the joint in? What all did you do to the brake side to make the 09+ rearsets work besides a longer line?

and +1 on screw the rear brake.

Originally Posted by blazenorange

Kevin I'm on ur side with the rear brake now lol... Makes perfect sense..

Originally Posted by MDeezy

on a side note..what's the carbon heel guard about? Any reason to spend an extra $30