Help critique my riding/body position/whatever - Page 5 - ZX6R Forum
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post #61 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 08:26 AM
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Someone mentioned (I think in this thread) that, the knee out was not for 'feeling the ground', but for providing a stable platform to support your torso. I felt this helped me understand what was going on, and really improved my confidence.

I feel like I'm grabbing onto the bike with my heels; balls of the feet on the pegs, heels locked onto the heel guards on the stock rearsets. This makes my legs feel really locked in. I can cantilever my torso way off the bike, and use just the barest of fingertip pressure to hold throttle when in a turn.
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post #62 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 09:58 AM
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So I could use some advice. Lets say there was one particular (fictional) sweeping turn. say I have decent entry speed at the turn in, but suppose I also felt like I could carry more speed through the apex of said turn, but in doing so, can help unload the front too quickly. If that turn weren't long enough to allow for a slow enough roll-on to be effective through the turn, am I coming in at to high a gear? where am I losing corner speed? am I sitting too far back in my seat?
I understand there are a lot of variables to this hypothetical question, so we will fill them in as they come up lol
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post #63 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mijustin View Post
So I could use some advice. Lets say there was one particular (fictional) sweeping turn. say I have decent entry speed at the turn in, but suppose I also felt like I could carry more speed through the apex of said turn, but in doing so, can help unload the front too quickly. If that turn weren't long enough to allow for a slow enough roll-on to be effective through the turn, am I coming in at to high a gear? where am I losing corner speed? am I sitting too far back in my seat?
I understand there are a lot of variables to this hypothetical question, so we will fill them in as they come up lol
I don't get your question(s). A video would probably help more.

There are way too many variables for this, because it's mostly related to the geometry of the turn.

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post #64 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 11:11 AM
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I don't get your question(s). A video would probably help more.

There are way too many variables for this, because it's mostly related to the geometry of the turn.
My bet is he could show you a Google Maps shot that perfectly matches the hypothetical turn.

My guess? Your corner entry speed could be higher.

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post #65 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 11:14 AM
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If you are looking for turn points, I like to review this vid before I go to VIR north. I was planning to go that weekend, but family issues took precedent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P66mn70S2M0

Listen when they get back on the gas, it's pretty early.

Your a brave man trying to outbrake those 600s with stock SV brakes. I put SS lines on mine with Versa pads and they were still nothing compared to my ZX6R. The good thing about the SV is there is a fair amount of engine braking and with less speed down the straight, makes it acceptable.



And yep PS doesn't do anything halfway.......


Don't-cha just love Vesrah brake pads? My very favourite 'track' pad for serious whoa-factor. I tend to like Carbone Lorraine, EBC, or SBS better on the street 'cuz I like their 'feel' in the rain a little better. But on a dry track, nothing's better than Vesrah in my book.
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post #66 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 11:26 AM
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I don't get your question(s). A video would probably help more.

There are way too many variables for this, because it's mostly related to the geometry of the turn.
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Originally Posted by commiehunter View Post
My bet is he could show you a Google Maps shot that perfectly matches the hypothetical turn.

My guess? Your corner entry speed could be higher.
Lol... I feel the way I posed the question was more nefarious then my intentions lol...

What I'm talking about is my first time out to shannonville, I was having perpetual difficulty with my front tire slipping as I hit the apex through turn 4. Problem is I'm hitting the entry as fast as I thought I could, but losing way to much speed coming out of the turn. I had my garmin on and I'm trying to find the data and video clip... But I think commi may be right that my perception of entry speed at that time may have been greater than the actual speed. I ask cause I'm going back in Aug and I wanted to make some time there specifically.

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post #67 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mijustin View Post
So I could use some advice. Lets say there was one particular (fictional) sweeping turn. say I have decent entry speed at the turn in, but suppose I also felt like I could carry more speed through the apex of said turn, but in doing so, can help unload the front too quickly. If that turn weren't long enough to allow for a slow enough roll-on to be effective through the turn, am I coming in at to high a gear? where am I losing corner speed? am I sitting too far back in my seat?
I understand there are a lot of variables to this hypothetical question, so we will fill them in as they come up lol
Possibly double apex it, even if there's not a clear straight bottom or U-shape to it. Some V-shape turns will benefit from this technique due to topo aspects or preceding cornering complexes. You might sacrifice ever so slightly on the entry/turnin- speed, but by an ever so brief straightening up to 'flatten' the tires (especially the fat rear tire) square with the tarmac, then quick-flick back onto its side again allows for higher than average exit speeds. This is especially useful if the exit leads into any sort of straight.

I'd suggest you do a pre-event walk around the track and really examine that troublesome corner... get on your hands & knees both inside/outside off the entry-apex-exit if need be. You'll be amazed at what a little sleuthing will reveal.
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post #68 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ZedExMuse View Post
Possibly double apex it, even if there's not a clear straight bottom or U-shape to it. Some V-shape turns will benefit from this technique due to topo aspects or preceding cornering complexes. You might sacrifice ever so slightly on the entry/turnin- speed, but by an ever so brief straightening up to 'flatten' the tires (especially the fat rear tire) square with the tarmac, then quick-flick back onto its side again allows for higher than average exit speeds. This is especially useful if the exit leads into any sort of straight.

.


I think you're absolutely right, as I would have ample space to stand the bike and flick it in again outside of 4, I think with another full years experience under my belt this time around, after the first couple of laps I might be able to come into the turn a little faster....say third gear 80 kmh. obviously I'll have to adjust my line which might give me a more direct linear path to the corner exit. Thanks for the advice!
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post #69 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:10 PM
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I don't necessarily agree that there is a "right" body position, but I will certainly agree that there can be a "bad" body position. I do feel people put too much emphasis on BP when it is just one of many factors and in my opinion having Marc Marquez's exact BP maybe isn't the most critical thing to strive for. In my opinion "weight distribution" on the bike at appropriate places is more important than body position. Weight distribution and body position aren't synonymous. I have a fat ass so I can just hang that thing off the side and get as much weight in a specific location as Marquez does with his entire body.

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Last edited by trackdayhero; 07-14-2016 at 02:23 PM.
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post #70 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:22 PM
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I don't necessarily agree that there is a "right" body position, but I will certainly agree that there can be a "bad" body position. I do feel people put too much emphasis on BP when it is just one of many factors and in my opinion having Marc Marquez's exact BP maybe isn't the most critical thing to strive for. In my opinion "weight distribution" on the bike at appropriate places is the key. This can be accomplished with varying body positions.
So to that point, (and to further my inquire, which you were not specifically referencing) in a double apex, could one be advised adjust their BP mid turn if necessary?
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post #71 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:24 PM
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So to that point, (and to further my inquire, which you were not specifically referencing) in a double apex, could one be advised adjust their BP mid turn if necessary?
I vary where my weight is over the bike along with throttle control when in corners all the time, not just double apexes. The changes may not be significant changes. Sometimes I keep my body in the same position through a corner but change the angle of the bike under me too if that makes sense. That is I may change the lean angle and sharpness of my turn by letting the bike straighten up under me but keep my head and body the same distance from the ground. That would be if I get into a corner at not the exact optimum speed and I do that to fine tune the corner. Also I do that on corner exit. That may be different than what you are talking about though.
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Last edited by trackdayhero; 07-14-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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post #72 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commiehunter View Post
Someone mentioned (I think in this thread) that, the knee out was not for 'feeling the ground', but for providing a stable platform to support your torso. I felt this helped me understand what was going on, and really improved my confidence.
I'm not an expert racer but kind of like other things, this may depend on the rider and/or situation. I use my knee as an original gauge but not an end all or have to touch on every corner. Depending on the track, you may want to be careful how much pressure you put on that thing because on a bumpy track, you may be thrown off the bike.
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post #73 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:37 PM
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I used to use my knee for a tripod thinking I could go faster around a corner and if she lets loose no big deal, I just hold it up with my knee. That actually works, but knee sliders are WAY too expensive so I quit riding like that.
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post #74 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mijustin View Post
So to that point, (and to further my inquire, which you were not specifically referencing) in a double apex, could one be advised adjust their BP mid turn if necessary?
Try to not make any adjustments at full lean. Usually it's best to avoid that so you don't unsettle the bike.

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post #75 of 115 Old 07-14-2016, 02:51 PM
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I appreciate the advice guys, I can't wait to hit the track armed with more information, especially from guys as quick as you all
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