Ninja 300 vs R3? - Page 3 - ZX6R Forum
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post #31 of 41 Old 03-15-2017, 05:05 AM
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Nhms is notoriously rough. I'm trying to get a buddy to go with me for a track day and he refuses because of it lol
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post #32 of 41 Old 03-15-2017, 11:33 AM
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The rears don't surprise me that much because I think PSlo uses the SC0 sometimes which is really soft. The WSS guys use either the SC0 or SC1 depending on the track so those really don't last very long. But the fronts kinda surprises me...1 front a weekend (assume 2 days)? I would think you can do a lot more than that. I know I'm not as fast as him, but I can get like 6 days easily on a front, maybe more.

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post #33 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
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Nhms is notoriously rough. I'm trying to get a buddy to go with me for a track day and he refuses because of it lol
Make sure you call your friend a pussy from me :-p

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Originally Posted by sbk1198 View Post
The rears don't surprise me that much because I think PSlo uses the SC0 sometimes which is really soft. The WSS guys use either the SC0 or SC1 depending on the track so those really don't last very long. But the fronts kinda surprises me...1 front a weekend (assume 2 days)? I would think you can do a lot more than that. I know I'm not as fast as him, but I can get like 6 days easily on a front, maybe more.
Tire wear is not linear. Once you get to a point where you are pushing the front (or regularly sliding the rear), wear increases exponentially. Also as was mentioned track conditions come into play and NHMS is not exactly easy on tires. I generally use SC1 rears and SC2 fronts btw.

I generally swap tires at about 50% as that is when grip begins to fall off on them and sell them as takeoffs for trackday riders or less experienced racers. I recoup a little of the cost and they get a tire that will last them many days. I *could* continue to push them but to run with the guys at the front, fresh tires are a necessity.

Our front runners (multinational title holders) are all on fresh tires every single race which is a luxury that I simply cannot afford.
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post #34 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 06:32 AM
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Haha I'll do that. I did already call him out but I'll make sure I get him again
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post #35 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 01:57 PM
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Make sure you call your friend a pussy from me :-p



Tire wear is not linear. Once you get to a point where you are pushing the front (or regularly sliding the rear), wear increases exponentially. Also as was mentioned track conditions come into play and NHMS is not exactly easy on tires. I generally use SC1 rears and SC2 fronts btw.

I generally swap tires at about 50% as that is when grip begins to fall off on them and sell them as takeoffs for trackday riders or less experienced racers. I recoup a little of the cost and they get a tire that will last them many days. I *could* continue to push them but to run with the guys at the front, fresh tires are a necessity.

Our front runners (multinational title holders) are all on fresh tires every single race which is a luxury that I simply cannot afford.
How many laps would you say you get on an SC1 rear before you get rid of it then? And didn't you use SC0's as well? I recall you mentioned something about those in other threads.

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post #36 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 04:39 PM
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Our front runners (multinational title holders) are all on fresh tires every single race which is a luxury that I simply cannot afford.
It's refreshing to hear someone (especially at your level) ACTUALLY SAY THIS! I'm so god damn tired of the philosophy being you HAVE to have all the nicest parts/components and that money should be no object when the reality is most of us cannot afford to slap on a brand new tire every 6 laps.
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post #37 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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How many laps would you say you get on an SC1 rear before you get rid of it then? And didn't you use SC0's as well? I recall you mentioned something about those in other threads.
One 8 lap sprint, one 12 lap sprint, two 15 minute practice sessions (probably 8 actual laps at pace each), two warm up laps so I would say around 38-40 laps at speed. I have run SC0s when my vendor ran out of SC1s. They are absurdly sticky...like you can do no wrong..but they started to fall off mid-race so I only got about 5-6 laps before it happened. They are really intended to only be a qualifying tire so 2-3 good laps and then toss them.

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It's refreshing to hear someone (especially at your level) ACTUALLY SAY THIS! I'm so god damn tired of the philosophy being you HAVE to have all the nicest parts/components and that money should be no object when the reality is most of us cannot afford to slap on a brand new tire every 6 laps.
Well, to be honest, you do have to. There are many reasons why I am not winning every race. Tires are a small part of it (more like lack of balls, lack of talent, lack of skill) but they ARE a part of it. If you want to race and have fun you can get by with whatever tires that you have. If you want to race and consistently win you have to put yourself on an even playing field with the top runners at least. They are all sponsored directly by Dunlop (at my local) so tires are not a concern for them. I have to pay for my tires so I have to stretch them somewhat. If I could afford it I would absolutely put fresh tires on every race, and my results would improve because of it but I am in a position where that actually matters.

Racing is about money. Those who have it put themselves in a much better chance to win. You CAN win without it, but your chances are greatly diminished. I am not as skilled or confident as our top riders, so to also put me at a disadvantage with older tires all but guarantees that I will not be able to beat them with any consistency.

Now, the vast majority of racers cannot afford to do this (I certainly can't anymore. I went broke trying) so there is tons of fun racing with other people in similar situations but have no illusions that you will actually be able to compete with the top runners without that level of commitment.
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post #38 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 08:16 PM
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That all makes sense and I agree. I certainly don't have any illusions of running with the top riders without going all in. I am simply referring to the average track day/club racer/enthusiast.
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post #39 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 09:32 PM
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The ninja 300 is better because it's made by kawasaki and I have one. . There are plenty of spare parts for it. . . and more racers are using the ninja 300 in the upcoming world supersport 300 races. There has to be a good reason for that :

American Ashton Yates Included On Provisional 2017 FIM Supersport 300 World Championship Entry List


2017 Provisional permanent Entry List, 22 December


(Competition Number, Rider Name, Nationality, Motorcycle, Team)

62, Jarred Schultz, RSA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, BWG Racing_Grimaldi

8, Kim Aloisi, ITA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, DS Junior Team

20, Dorren Loureiro, RSA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, DS Junior Team

2, Ana Carrasco, ESP, Kawasaki Ninja 300, ETG Racing

6, Robert Schotman, NED, Yamaha YZF-R3, GRT Racing Team

TBA, Yamaha YZF-R3, GRT Racing Team

33, Daniel Valle, ESP, Yamaha YZF-R3, Halcourier Racing

TBA, Yamaha YZF-R3, Halcourier Racing

26, Luke Hopkins, GBR, Kawasaki Ninja 300, Hopkins Racing

80, Armando Pontone, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, IODARacing Project

121, Kimi Patova, FIN, Yamaha YZF-R3, Kallio Race System

130, Renzo Ferreira, BRA, Yamaha YZF-R3, Kallio Race System

54, Harun Cabuk, TUR, Kawasaki Ninja 300, Kawasaki Puccetti Racing

5, Scott Deroue, NED, Kawasaki Ninja 300, MTM HS Kawasaki

TBA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, MTM HS Kawasaki

9, Ruben Doorakkers, NED, Yamaha YZF-R3, MVR Racing

27, Filippo Rovelli, ITA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, ParkinGO DS Junior Team

12, Ali Adriansyah Rusmiputro, INA, Yamaha YZF-R3, Pertamina Racing Team

17, Gabriel Noderer, GER, Honda CBR500R, Scuderia Maranga Racing

35, Alessandro Triglia, ITA, Honda CBR500R, Scuderia Maranga Racing

15, Alfonso Coppola, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, SK Racing

84, Michael Carbonera, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, SK Racing

95, Giuseppe De Gruttola, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, SK Racing

21, Avalon Biddle, NZL, Kawasaki Ninja 300, Sourz Foods-Benjan Racing

22, Mykyta Kalinin, UKR, Yamaha YZF-R3, Team MotoxRacing

18, Alex Murley, GBR, Yamaha YZF-R3, Team Toth

120, Ashton Yates, USA, Yamaha YZF-R3, Team Toth

87, Angelo Licciardi, BEL, Yamaha YZF-R3, Team Trasimeno

28, Paolo Giacomini, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, Terra e Moto

88, Mika Perez, ESP, Honda CBR500R, WILSport Racedays Honda

7, Nicola Settimo, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, 2R Road Racing

13, Jacopo Facco, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, 2R Road Racing

23, Manuel Bastianelli, ITA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, 3570 Team Italia

99, Paolo Grassia, ITA, Kawasaki Ninja 300, 3570 Team Italia

11, Nicolas Cupaioli, ITA, Yamaha YZF-R3, 3ENNE#Racing
Seems strange that there's no sign of a KTM in here even though they've got really good racing pedigrees, but a 500cc Honda can be considered legit?

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post #40 of 41 Old 03-16-2017, 10:52 PM
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One 8 lap sprint, one 12 lap sprint, two 15 minute practice sessions (probably 8 actual laps at pace each), two warm up laps so I would say around 38-40 laps at speed. I have run SC0s when my vendor ran out of SC1s. They are absurdly sticky...like you can do no wrong..but they started to fall off mid-race so I only got about 5-6 laps before it happened. They are really intended to only be a qualifying tire so 2-3 good laps and then toss them.
That's what I was guessing, which I find interesting because I believe the WSS guys use either SC1 or SC0, and the WSBK guys often times use the SC0 rear when they don't use their special not off the shelf tires, yet it's not uncommon to see racers in either of those classes do their fastest lap at the end of a 30 lap race. That would lead me to think that you should really be able to do a lot more laps because it takes quite a bit longer to really lose the grip on these Pirellis especially since even a fast guy like you is not riding at WSS/WSBK pace.

I can probably get at least 60-70 laps before I start noticing a slight drop in grip...that's at my local tracks, which are about 2-2.4 miles....at a track like Road America, which is 4 miles, it's obviously much less laps than that.

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post #41 of 41 Old 03-19-2017, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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That's what I was guessing, which I find interesting because I believe the WSS guys use either SC1 or SC0, and the WSBK guys often times use the SC0 rear when they don't use their special not off the shelf tires, yet it's not uncommon to see racers in either of those classes do their fastest lap at the end of a 30 lap race. That would lead me to think that you should really be able to do a lot more laps because it takes quite a bit longer to really lose the grip on these Pirellis especially since even a fast guy like you is not riding at WSS/WSBK pace.

I can probably get at least 60-70 laps before I start noticing a slight drop in grip...that's at my local tracks, which are about 2-2.4 miles....at a track like Road America, which is 4 miles, it's obviously much less laps than that.
I am most definitely not at WSS pace and the tires are by no means exhausted when I take them off. As I said earlier, I do notice a drop in grip around that time and my competition is on fresh rubber. I have run a set of Pirelli's until the DOTs have no tread left on the edges and they still stuck (but nowhere near as well as fresh). The issue for me is that all of my competition is on fresh rubber every single race.

I could be wrong but when I hear them refer to tires for WSS/WSBK they always say "soft" etc. I have always heard the SC0 referred to as "super-soft" or "qualifying' so SC1=soft, SC2=medium, SC3= hard. So I always assumed they were on SC1 or SC2 rears. Never really paid that close attention to it to be honest.

Anyway, I am also going to guess that your track surface is significantly smoother than what I have to ride on which literally chews up tires. That is absolutely a contributing factor when it comes to why I need to swap out when I do.
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