Electrical Gremlins. This one's tough... - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 03-30-2017, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Electrical Gremlins. This one's tough...

Ok so here goes. This post is going to contain a ton of info and is a problem that I have never seen discussed anywhere on the internet because I have searched the hell out of it. I kinda don't even expect it to get replies since it seems no body has ever run into this issue before but I'm asking anyway.

2003 ZX-6R 28k miles.
Problem: FI light, code 32, Sub-Throttle sensor malfunction.
Info pertaining to the problem: I've had this problem since I got the bike over a year and 12k miles ago and I'm getting sick of knowing that there is a problem with my bike.
A few months ago, after a valve adjustment, the mechanic switched the main throttle and sub throttle sensor plugs which caused all hell to break loose on the ride-ability of my bike. While chasing that problem down myself the service code switched from code 32 (the problem I'm having now) to code 11, main throttle sensor malfunction. After referencing the manual I noticed that the input voltage range of both of those sensors are identical and the output voltages of those sensors are damn near identical. This leads me to believe that the actual sensor is fine since the code 32 disappeared while the plugs were switched.
This lead me to think that there was a short in the wiring somewhere that carried an input or output signal from the sub-throttle sensor. Earlier this week I ordered some posi-taps (the things that are used to power stuff like power commanders) to jump the wires direct from the sensor direct to the ECU. I was so hopeful this would solve my problem but nope, exactly the same.
I've been staring at the wiring diagram for my bike for hours trying to find out how there would still be a problem and I cannot figure it out since I'm more mechanically inclined than electrically inclined.
There are three possible solutions that I can imagine.
1) The actual sensor is bad and the fact that the code switched after my valve adjustment was just a fluke. I would need to order a new throttle body assembly.
2) The ECU is bad. Skeptical of this too since the bike has run as good as I can tell since I've had it. I would need to order a new ECU to fix this.
3) My thought that it is a wiring problem is correct but I just can't figure out how the wiring harness is broken. A solution to this might be to replace this section of the wiring harness...


And if that didn't work I would have to order an entire wire harness.

Ok so if you made it to the end go have a beer and call your old English teacher and tell her you just read a damn novel. If you have any clue as to how to solve this issue, you wont ever realize how much I would appreciate that. This problem has me beat...

Relax...
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post #2 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 03:47 AM
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I would try replacing the whole subthrottle assembly first. They go for pretty cheap on ebay.
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post #3 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 03:59 AM
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When the code changed, that told you the sub throttle was bad. The wiring harness was good, as the fault stayed at whatever was plugged into the sensor. The ECU doesn't know where the harness is plugged into, but it can tell there's a fault.... so it's probably good, too.
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post #4 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 05:14 AM
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+1 the code changing indicates the Sub-Throttle sensor is bad.

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post #5 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 05:43 AM
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^^ thinking about this on the drive in..... it may in fact be the connector melted and shorted, rather than the sensor. Odds are better it's the sensor, but it remains that the harness may be melted.
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"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #6 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 07:58 AM
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OP,

There should be a procedure in the shop manual for your bike to evaluate the sub throttle sensor. it's almost certainly going to require making a resistance measurement between two pins on the sensor's connector. That number is supposed to vary between two set values. If the ECU can't develop the voltage it expects to see by passing a current through that resistance, it will not know what the sensor is telling it.

The ECU can complete that test on the main position sensor, whether it's the correct connector or not. When either connector is plugged into the sub throttle sensor, you get a code saying something's wrong.

Another scenario may be that some previous owner disabled the sub throttle butterflies..... thinking they could get some 'free' HP. If that was done in a redneck fashion, you might have stumbled into that when the mechanic plugged it up wrong.

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

"There's this adage that we have 2 ears and one mouth so we should listen twice as much as we talk. Unfortunately with the Internet people have taken this old adage and turned it around. They have two eyes and 10 fingers so they think they need to post 5 times as much as they read. And since they have 10 fingers and one brain, they only have to think 10% of the time! "
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post #7 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Dang, so the switching of the codes means the sensor is bad? I guess I was way off, the fact that the trouble code followed the sub throttle sensor wiring made me think it was that.
I don't mind spending money to solve this problem but I'd rather not spend it where it isn't needed so just let me get this straight....
If I take the main throttle sensor plug and put it on the sub throttle sensor, the sub throttle sensor appears to works fine meaning I do not get a trouble code for that. Then if I take the sub throttle sensor plug and put it on the main throttle sensor, then I get a main throttle sensor trouble code. That's where I'm at right now.

Also there is a testing procedure for the sensors but it requires a special tool that goes in between the sensor and the plug and I do not have that special tool.

Today I plan on digging around a little bit with the wiring and seeing if there is any evidence that a PO did some backwoods shit for "HP gain".

Thank you all for your help this far.

Relax...
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post #8 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so I went poking around under the air box and I think I found a problem. I don't know if it is the only problem though. Here are some pictures.



I'm guessing this isn't factory wiring. I'm thinking I need to order that section of wiring harness regardless if that is the only problem or not. Is this sound thinking?

Relax...
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post #9 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProZach View Post
Dang, so the switching of the codes means the sensor is bad? I guess I was way off, the fact that the trouble code followed the sub throttle sensor wiring made me think it was that.
I don't mind spending money to solve this problem but I'd rather not spend it where it isn't needed so just let me get this straight....
If I take the main throttle sensor plug and put it on the sub throttle sensor, the sub throttle sensor appears to works fine meaning I do not get a trouble code for that. Then if I take the sub throttle sensor plug and put it on the main throttle sensor, then I get a main throttle sensor trouble code. That's where I'm at right now.

Also there is a testing procedure for the sensors but it requires a special tool that goes in between the sensor and the plug and I do not have that special tool.

Today I plan on digging around a little bit with the wiring and seeing if there is any evidence that a PO did some backwoods shit for "HP gain".

Thank you all for your help this far.
The trouble code isn't following the the sub throttle sensor wiring.

When you connect the main throttle sensor plug to the sub throttle sensor, the ECU now thinks that the sub throttle sensor is the main throttle sensor, so now it throws a code for main throttle sensor.

And, since you connected the sub throttle sensor plug to the main throttle sensor (which is working fine), the ECU now thinks the main throttle sensor is the sub throttle sensor and doesn't throw a code, since that sensor is working fine (this would also indicate that the sub throttle sensor plug/wiring is fine).
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Last edited by Strider; 03-31-2017 at 01:56 PM.
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post #10 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider View Post
The trouble code isn't following the the sub throttle sensor wiring.

When you connect the main throttle sensor plug to the sub throttle sensor, the ECU now thinks that the sub throttle sensor is the main throttle sensor, so now it throws a code for main throttle sensor.

And, since you connected the sub throttle sensor plug to the main throttle sensor (which is working fine), the ECU now thinks the main throttle sensor is the sub throttle sensor and doesn't throw a code, since that sensor is working fine (this would also indicate that the sub throttle sensor plug/wiring is fine).
Ohhhh ok. I think I get it now. I'm still learning here so just ignore my ignorance. I'll go ahead and order a new TB assembly and let you know how it turns out.
Thanks guys.

Edit: Again, just making sure. This is what I need correct?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2004-03...38.m2548.l4275
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Relax...

Last edited by ProZach; 03-31-2017 at 02:49 PM.
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post #11 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 05:50 PM
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OK,, start with cleaning up the wiring..

If that doesn't do it.. suggestions above should get you going.
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post #12 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I ordered the throttle body assembly I linked above, should be to me by late next week. If that doesn't work there is the section of the wiring harness that I have found issue with for sale as well. That will be what I go for if the TB assembly doesn't fix my issue.

Thank you all for you help, I will update here with any new developments.
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Relax...
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post #13 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 08:26 PM
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Brother,, I wouldn't wait on the harness.

If it is not causing issues now. It will in the future.. That was done by a butcher.

Get several sizes of heat shrink. Find some spare wire, for practice if needed. I like using flux, pre tinning the wire.
Solder those connections and cover them in heat shrink. '
Youtube can be a life saver.

Just remember.. the shrink needs to be down the wire a bit or be quick on the heat.
And most importantly, the shrink must be on the wire BEFORE soldering. (don't ask)
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post #14 of 22 Old 03-31-2017, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy View Post
Brother,, I wouldn't wait on the harness.

If it is not causing issues now. It will in the future.. That was done by a butcher.

Get several sizes of heat shrink. Find some spare wire, for practice if needed. I like using flux, pre tinning the wire.
Solder those connections and cover them in heat shrink. '
Youtube can be a life saver.

Just remember.. the shrink needs to be down the wire a bit or be quick on the heat.
And most importantly, the shrink must be on the wire BEFORE soldering. (don't ask)
I feel ya, it's not going to wait any longer than it has to, I just don't have a lot of free time to work on it. Plus my bike is my daily so I'd rather not have it down for more than a day.
I've done a little bit of soldering before so I'm familiar with the process I just really don't like doing it. It's too tedious for me to really enjoy.
I can get that section of wire harness off ebay for $45 and that is worth it to me as opposed to redoing that section of harness.
Kawasaki Ninja ZX636 ZX 636 ZX6R Main Relay Harness 80311 | eBay

Thank God this bike was cheap and this forum exists.

Edit: Found the same harness section on ebay for $8. I ordered it.
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Relax...

Last edited by ProZach; 03-31-2017 at 10:05 PM.
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-01-2017, 05:24 AM
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If there are aftermarket electrical bit installed, would be looking in those areas for more creative wiring.
OF course a once over for really stupid butchery. As in cut wires etc that are in area's no one would ever need to cut.
When I see stuff like that, the red lights go on. I've been bit by hackers like this before.
Pull out a flash light, and start searching.

Glad it was cheap, and stick with it. Sounds like your getting a handle on the problem.
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